Part 7: Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[AndHarry]

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered

Thread 2 - Operation Protective Edge

Thread 3 - Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement

Thread 4 - Operation Protective Edge and the different views in Israel and the wider international community

Thread 5 - in which Operation Protective Edge came to an end and the discussion continued

Thread 6 - themes of the conflict, what happens next and how ordinary people can get involved

Welcome to Thread 7.

halfdrunkmulledwine Here is one link - the other I will have to dig up later. Sorry I cannot quote from my actual vast library of books on jewish history (!) I note the internet is not enough of a reference for you..

some excerpts:

1. On Feb 1, 1940 Henry Montor executive vice-President of the United Jewish Appeal refused to intervene for a shipload of Jewish refugees stranded on the Danube river, stating that "Palestine cannot be flooded with... old people or with undesirables."

1. On Feb. 16, 1943 Roumania offered 70,000 Jewish refugees of the Trans-Dniestria to leave at the cost of $50 each. This was publicized in the New York papers. Yitzhak Greenbaum, Chairman of the Rescue Committee of the Jewish Agency, addressing the Zionist Executive Council in Tel Aviv Feb. 18 1943 said, "when they asked me, "couldn't you give money out of the United Jewish Appeal funds for the rescue of Jews in Europe, I said NO! and I say again, NO!...one should resist this wave which pushes the Zionist activities to secondary importance."

1. During the course of the negotiations mentioned above, Chaim Weizman, the first "Jewish statesman" stated: "The most valuable part of the Jewish nation is already in Palestine, and those Jews living outside Palestine are not too important". Weizman's cohort, Greenbaum, amplified this statement with the observation "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe".

1. And then, after the bitterest episode in Jewish history, these Zionist "statesmen" lured the broken refugees in the DP camps to remain in hunger and deprivation, and to refuse relocation to any place but Palestine; only for the purpose of building their State.

1. Zionists Offer a Military Alliance with Hitler - It would be wishful thinking if it could be stated that the leaders of the Zionist movement sat back and ignored the plight of their dying brothers and sisters. Not only did they publicly refuse to assist in their rescue, but they actively participated with Hitler and the Nazi regime. Early in 1935, a passenger ship bound for Haifa in Palestine left the German port of Bremerhaven. Its stern bore the Hebrew letter for its name, "Tel Aviv", while a swastika banner fluttered from the mast. And although the ship was Zionist owned, its captain was a National Socialist Party (Nazi) member. Many years later a traveler aboard the ship recalled this symbolic combination as a "metaphysical absurdity". Absurd or not, this is but one vignette from a little-known chapter of history: The wide ranging collaboration between Zionism and Hitler's Third Reich. In early January 1941 a small but important Zionist organization submitted a formal proposal to German diplomats in Beirut for a military-political alliance with wartime Germany. etc..

www.truetorahjews.org/lieberman

trying this for a third time to post the truth. Oh how the truth hurts?

I have said nothing to dehumanise anyone! Your insults are unacceptable and you should be ashamed of yourselves. I thought this was a forum of adults! Just because enough people "think" something doesn't mean it's true.

There are no other refugees in the world that are in the situation the Palestinians are in due to their leaders. They elect leaders that get rich off of their situation and it is in the leaders benefit to keep their people oppressed. It makes the bank account grow and grow. Arafat the great leader - he was born in Cairo. He was not PALESTINIAN. He died a billionaire! If you don't believe me look it up! There are also 100 or so millionaires in Gaza. How could that be if it is so impoverished? Corruption? Theft of aid? Ask these questions and demand answers!

Other nations that are refugees settle. Have you ever asked why Palestinians don't settle somewhere? They aren't allowed! Look at the double standard. Look at the laws in Lebanon that apply only to Palestinians. Look at Syria...Jordan.

Now let's ask why do the Palestinian leaders (Hamas who is the elected government) build tunnels and not schools? Bombs and not roads? Why?? What is the purpose? are they protecting their children in bomb shelters? or are they protecting their BOMBS? Is their goal a state of their own alongside Israel? Or is it one state with no Israel? They are only interested in the destruction of ISRAEL...it is clear. It is in the Hamas Charter.

Do not attack me. Look at the facts.

not sure I follow your point mum.

Are you saying that Palestinians are wicked/stupid people, and that therefore they deserve to have their land and homes invaded, occupied and stolen?

Are you saying that the Palestinians have no rights and must be ethnically cleansed from any land which Jews wish to take, and therefore their homelessness is the responsibility of foreign countries for not taking them in?

The source of the other article someone quoted on another site was this rabbi:

"Rabbi Weissmandl worked tirelessly at gathering documentation on the Holocaust. He accused the Jewish Agency, the Joint Distribution Committee and the World Jewish Congress of ignoring the appeals he had made during the Holocaust for the financial help with which he could have saved a great number of Jews."

www.weissmandl.org/TheUnheededCry/UnheededCryText.htm

And
www.yivoencyclopedia.org/article.aspx/Weissmandel_Mikhael_Dov_Ber

don't put such vile words in my mouth piglet.

you all go on and on about Israel and what you perceive they do wrong but you NEVER call the Palestinian LEADERSHIP that was elected I might add, on their atrocities. You don't condemn it. You excuse it. I am showing you facts - now start asking questions of the Palestinian leaders. They are the official terrorists. They are on the UK, US and EU terror list. HAMAS = terrorist. And their charter has not been changed. Go interview their leaders. They still believe in no Israel. Ever. And won't stop their terrorist ways until Israel is gone.

now start asking questions of the Palestinian leaders. They are the official terrorists. They are on the UK, US and EU terror list.

The EU court has today removed Hamas from it's list of terrorist organisations.

mumof 2, you have reiterated your arguments twice already, they didn't make sense the first two times either.

"why do the Palestinian leaders build tunnels and not schools? Bombs and not roads? "

Why would anyone ask refugees to build a future for themselves on a scrap of land. The fair thing to do would be do let them stay on their land. They build tunnels to get essentials in and out (jam as someone pointed out) and cement to rebuild. Schools are being provided by agencies like UNRWA as these people have been reduced to refugees, they do not have the luxury of planning a country - that right has been taken away from them.

They did build a University in Gaza. Whatever happened to that Mumof2?

I am so pleased that Hamas have been taken off the terrorist organisations list! I hope they use that status to diplomatically push harder for a peaceful future. I must stress that I don't agree with war crimes or acts of terror, whether perpetrated by Israel or Hamas. I do however, support the right of Palestinians to resist occupation and armed resistance is a necessity when up against Israeli aggression. Remember, the South African ANC was also an armed resistance to filthy apartheid oppression, even some well known black south africans say that what palestinians are facing us worse than what they faced.

Free Palestine!

IDF propaganda always seems a good old step out of date doesn't it?

you'll be pleased to know that concheeta or whatever it's name was has been banned for repeated racial hatred and incitement.

mumof2 has reposted things she's already had deleted so presuming she won't be far behind.

not to mention that saying hamas are on terror lists when in fact they're not is slander.

Mumof2

You allege that I "Excuse" atrocities.

Be so kind as to show a post in which I have done that.

I want to check if the idea is in my words, or in your head.

THB - in fact does anyone know of any forums where israeli peace activists hang out or campaign? or is it too dangerous for them to do so under the current regime? I don't know of any Israeli online peace forums (I only have phrasebook Hebrew so can't read Hebrew-language sources), but you could try the following: Combatants for Peace, +972 Magazine, Seeds of Peace and Breaking the Silence.

labslondon - do you believe everything you read on the internet? Please don't start quoting chunks of the True Torah Jews - they are a tiny fringe group of rabbis who cite no sources for their often offensive statements (I suggest you have a read of 18-20 of this thread on this topic).

PiaBJ - Haj Amin al Husseini wasn't a random Palestinian, but the Grand Mufti - the Palestinian leader. Lots of people suffered after WWII because their leaders backed the Nazis.

So you're telling me that you do condemn a nation because of the actions of one long-dead leader?

Menachem Begin wasn't a random Israeli, either

More links to Israeli and Palestinian peace groups here:
www.yesmagazine.org/peace-justice/13-peacebuilders-in-gaza

no comment on your sane pal who was telling like it is being banned then?

no penny drop moments that maybe israeli culture and uk culture is vastly different in terms of what rhetoric and attitudes are considered acceptable?

no condemnation for a poster claiming palestinians don't love their children and that asian youth are murderous and violent or condemnation for a poster who posted a demand to destroy islam?

no?

definition of slander: the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.

each and every one of you that says something untrue about Netanyahu, Begin, and all the other Israeli's, are all committing slander. Don't lecture me about slander. Saying something that was true up until that moment is NOT slander by any definition.

and those of you that keep insisting there is some make believe apartheid in Israel...watch this:

I have to keep repeating myself because the truth doesn't seem to be sinking in. I'm not sure why as I am only stating facts - nothing make believe. I know the truth and that is what is important. Just because you choose to ignore the reality, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

The righteous will win as Israel has been given to the Jews by God.

oh so now you're dragging poor old God into it - like it's her whose bombing children in their beds.

look up blasphemy along with international law dear.

What happened to the University that was built in Gaza, mumof2?

Why did the IDF destroy the infrastructure of Gaza this summer? Why did the IDF target sheltering civilians in UN shelters?

God had a fair bit to say about murdering children and worshipping false gods (eg. nationalism) and taking his name in vain. if i was God and true to my word you'd not be coming to my party.

and as i recall it was the messiah who'd restore israel to the jews (aka palestinians of arab ethnicity) not the IDF with carpet bombs.

Funny video though. The situation in Gaza is not exactly the same as the SA Apartheid.

I mean, the South Africans didn't carpet bomb the townships, did they?

mumof2

"each and every one of you that says something untrue about Netanyahu, Begin..."

Has someone said something untrue about Begin? What?