Part 7: Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

[AndHarry]

Thread 1 - started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered

Thread 2 - Operation Protective Edge

Thread 3 - Operation Protective Edge, the wider conflict and international involvement

Thread 4 - Operation Protective Edge and the different views in Israel and the wider international community

Thread 5 - in which Operation Protective Edge came to an end and the discussion continued

Thread 6 - themes of the conflict, what happens next and how ordinary people can get involved

Welcome to Thread 7.

no they didn't carpet bomb the townships and they didn't as far as i know shoot children for playing on beaches or old men for farming.

i don't 'think' politicians stood up in public and called them snakes that needed exterminating even in their mother's wombs and i don't think white south africans marched through the streets chanting 'death to all blacks'.

you know it almost seem like israel is WORSE than south africa doesn't it? strange that.

PiaBJ - it's nothing to do with condemning a nation. Why can't the Silesian Germans reclaim their property in the Czech Republic. Why is the Ukrainian/Romanian/Hungarian border as it is? Why does much of the Tirol belong to Italy rather than Austria, and Alsace to France and not Germany - because at one point or another their leaders decided to throw their lot in with the wrong side in WWI and II. You could go and campaign for the Tirol to be returned to Austria, of course, but it's not a very progressive cause....

so why do you describe the Palestinians as not innocent, and justify your opinion by reference to one long-dead man, who you seem to suggest is representative of all Palestinians?

err so should we have just not intervened when germany invaded poland and france then? sat back and ignored the death camps etc and just said hey this is how it is, people find temselves ont he wrong side. i mean? you hear yourself right?

there's a big difference by the way between a nation gaining independence from a mega state and a people being occupied and terrorised by an incoming people. you get that yes?

collective guilt is of course a complex matter. I was answering the specific point from Labs about why the poor blameless Palestinians had their land partitioned in 1948, and I said that they weren't quite as blameless as all that, and that their leader had worked enthusiastically with the Nazis throughout the war, and that, like other peoples who supported the Germans in WWII, they often got the short straw when borders were redrawn.

As for Begin, he was a member of the Free Polish Army, and the Jewish Brigade enlisted with the allies. Not quite sure where he fits in to this argument....

He was also the leader of a notorious armed gang of terrorists, which shot, hanged and bombed numerous people, some of them British servicemen.

Or depending on your perspective, he led a brave and patriotic group of freedom fighters, like Hamas.

When I see repeated racist and religious abuse, I wonder if the author thinks he has found an excuse for his state's actions; or if he is simply venting his own hatred.

PIABJ - the comparison with Hamas is ridiculous. Begin fought, after WWII, for a place of safety for the Jews. The Irgun wan't particularly pleasant, but their demands were demands that could have been, and were met - The Irgun was incorporated into the haganah, and a secular state was established. Hamas's demand is that Israel disappear, and that a war takes place which involves the Muslims slaughtering the Jews until the Jews hide behind trees, etc etc, and then a state is set up based on Islam. This would be pretty miserable for all parties concerned, in particular the benighted Palestinians.

I have had to report a lot of posts over the last few days. I hope these posters are not part of israeli PR machine that get paid by the state, as such racism isn't going to help their apartheid cause in UK and beyond.

Racist and islamaphobic posts are against MN guidelines, JDL.

I am not muslim, am totally with you in opposing FGM, but find your posts v offensive, and misplaced on this thread. Unless you're saying that because certain Islamic countries practice FGM they deserve to be bombed to smithereens in the way Gaza was razed to the ground?

Don't feed the hasbara

Definition of hasbara: Hasbara is a form of propaganda aimed at an international audience, primarily, but not exclusively, in western countries. It is meant to influence the conversation in a way that positively portrays Israeli political moves and policies, including actions undertaken by Israel in the past.

Well, they have't convinced Europe or mothers on MN by killing child after child in Gaza - only managed to disgust most people with their blatant racism and raised more awareness of the Palestinian plight.

Spectacular fail!!

Free Palestine.

Sam

the comparison of Irgun with Hamas is:

armed groups
use guns and bombs
are associated with the interests of a particular ethnic group
kill people whom they consider opposed to them
kill soldiers
kill non-combatants, including children
are approved of by people on their own side
are disapproved of by people on the other side

I'm sure you know what the difference is between a "freedom fighter" and a "terrorist"

If you were British, you might consider that an armed group which killed British servicemen, such as the IRA or Irgun, was a terrorist group.

Yruapita, you're right. They'll need to issue refunds for all the posts they've had deleted.

lol at refunds.

i have a feeling some of the ones on recently were last minute temps who won't find themselves invited back into hasbara hq next week.

stunning racism on here in recent days.

I wonder which country they live in that causes them to mostly post around midnight UK time. Or have they just got in from the pub?

PIABJ - perhaps they have jobs I do ... Interesting link for you all ... This is what Hamas are teaching kids ( note I say Hamas not the Palestinians as they live under a terrorist regime ... Yes I know of the EU terror list but that's only temporary I'm sure)
www.foxnews.com/world/2014/05/09/terror-tv-for-tots-hamas-show-has-child-vowing-to-shoot-jews/
Note not Israelis .... Jews

there are some hateful people around

Glad to know that this lot haven't got their wish yet

Yes some of us have jobs and are mums (mumsnet) so we only go on here between work and family life, how about you???

Nipper

I thought you'd said you weren't talking to me.

Do you still claim that Palestinian rockets killed the children playing football on the beach, who were shelled by an Israeli gunboat?

And the other atrocities I mentioned?

Wishing everybody (whichever side you support) a very Happy Chanukah.

Happy Chanukah to one and all!

Season's Greetings