Thread 2 To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

[MistyMooPup]

First thread here:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/4916801-to-think-hamas-have-given-israel-the-excuse-they-were-looking-for?page=38

You do understand that Hamas siphons off support that should be reaching Palestinians, yes?

How is somebody who thinks like this incharge of security? Someone who is convicted of supporting TERRORISTS
iv just seen a video of him handing out guns to settlers as if hes handing out chocolate
Can any Israelis here enlighten me on what this hateful monster is doing in your government? What sort of democracy gives him such a position of power?

@Parkingt111
Can any Israelis here enlighten me on what this hateful monster is doing in your government?

I'm not sure where you get the idea that this thread is full of Israelis?

I'm not Jewish, and don't normally give a shit about religion or politics.

Governments always have shitheads in them.

The trouble is that all the usual strategies used in war are inevitably going to harm Gazan civilians too, since Hamas deliberately hide behind/among them.

While this is true in principle, the course that Israel’s War Council has chosen is the one that massacres the most civilians. It flagrantly ignores international law to at least try not to harm them. There are numerous other courses of action that could disable and capture Hamas without such loss of innocent lives.

The war on ISIS- a much bigger and better funded terrorist threat- proved that we can defeat terrorists in many cases without even killing their own families much less the civilians they lived amongst.

There is no excuse, no justification for what is happening to Gaza and now the West Bank.

don't normally give a shit about religion or politics.
That explains a lot.

He isn't a normal shit head though is he. He is the minister of security that has been convicted of supporting terrorists amongst a long line of other crimes.

It was his support for Kahanist-style Jewish militancy that informed his legal career, advocating for the next generation of violent religious settlers. Among them were two men charged in the 2015 torching of a family home in a Palestinian village that killed an 18-month-old baby and his parents

I didn't say it was full of Israelis. I've spoken to people on here who have said they are citizens of Israel

You do understand this is not an allowable justification to deny basic necessities to civilians in a war zone under international law? Israel do not have the legal right to block the aid or what they are doing which is let in so little aid it isn’t even enough for 0.1% of the civilian population to subsist on.

Yes, we should do a Corbyn and invite terrorists to tea. Is that one of your"numerous" options of dealing with them?

I wasn’t aware that we invited ISIS to tea? This is a serious situation, not one for such levity.

@Wonkasworld and what about this guy. I am actually in shock that someone who advocates for apartheid policies. Who doesn't even try and mask his hatred of Palestinians. Who defends the settlers who terrorise the Palestinians in the west bank and gives them tips on how to get away with it. Is the security minister in Israel. What sort of democracy gives this vile man a seat on the table

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/25/far-right-extremist-itamar-ben-gvir-to-be-israel-national-security-minister

If I take some of what you are saying, seriously, I will worry for myself.

No , that doesn't bode well.

Quite right, it's not really a jokey situation.

@Wonkasworld so all this time we have pol going on about dhimmis from hundreds of years ago every hour and then we have this guy. Who literally advocates apartheid. Affirms that Jews have a superiority over the Arabs. In government. In israel. Inciting settler violence against palestinians. And then handing out guns to them

And we just shrug and move on. As if people like him are not part of the wider problem over here.

@Parkingt111 I know FPTP gets some rightful criticism in the UK but at least it does keep the fringe loons out of ruling coalitions.
Not great at such a sensitive juncture.

Mr Ben Gvir isn’t inclusive by any measure:
In 2006, Mr Ben-Gvir attended a so-called beast parade against Gay Pride, in which religious activists led goats and donkeys through the streets and hoisted banners calling LGBTQ people "impure". Two years later, he was photographed kicking a trans woman at Gay Pride in Tel Aviv. He later claimed it was in self-defence.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-65754104

What happened. Investigate for what? Did you misread the post?

Or are you posting on behalf of the survival of Hamas

Why is that important to you?

This is what I don't get. They KNEW Israel would respond this way. They signed the death warrant of thousands of Palestinians. Why? Some say it's to do with Iran and it's anger at Isreal being normalised in the Middle East. Basically stirring the s@it and kick off conflict.

It is sickening that neither side has mentioned peace talks. Sickening.

The British Jews Against Occupation have spoken out regarding the Israeli Ambassador to the U.K. as well
”Tzipi Hotovely, the current Israeli Ambassador, is a racist. She has called Palestinians "thieves of history" and invited the fascist group Lehava to speak in the Knesset [Israel’s Parliament] about their often violent campaigns against relationships between Jews and individuals from other faiths. During her first event in the British Jewish community as ambassador she called the Nakba an "Arab lie", drawing strong criticism from The Abraham Initiatives and Rabbi Laura Janner-Klausner. “https://naamod.org.uk/campaigns/racism-not-kosher/

I saw her on the news her claiming there “was no humanitarian crisis in Gaza” on 16th October when it was clear it was a humanitarian crisis.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/israel-ambassador-uk-humanitarian-crisis-gaza_n_652d4472e4b03b213b06acab

The guy's a loon, unfortunately! But that article is from Nov 2022. Hopefully he'll be sacked in light of the fact that he's hardly done a great job on security lately. Someone mentioned that the army was slow to respond on 7 October because they were busy elsewhere protecting some idiots setting up a Sukkah in Huwara...

On the contrary he's fighting for more civilians to be armed and for the process to arm them be speeded up
Was filmed since the attack gleefully handing out guns to settlers
Which he sees as a great achievement

She is another despicable woman.
Can't stand her

@WhiteHorseSpirit "Your video confirms no fuel entered Gaza…Israel itself is saying it denies any fuel sent in. The UN says no fuel went in. What happened is reporters thought some tanker lorries had fuel in them but they did not."

I disagree.
What the clip actually states is that Israel says that no fuel was delivered.
The tankers say on them quite clearly "Bahool & Salah Petroleum Company" and have on them the international logo for inflammable liquids.

No other liquid can be put in petrol tankers and I can't understand why empty tankers would be entering Gaza - it makes no sense.

It didn’t kick off conflict, it escalated it. If you research into the events in the Palestinian Occupied Territories and their apartheid conditions, you’d see things were far from peaceful before October 7th.

Earlier this year- UN concluded Israel has committed war crimes

https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/04/1135602

Amnesty International also earlier this year
https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/MDE1568482023ENGLISH.pdf

2021- UNHCR approves investigating Israel’s war crimes

https://www.jns.org/un-human-rights-council-approves-measure-to-permanently-investigate-israel-over-war-crimes/

Similar was also going on to investigate Hamas war crimes….I’m sure you can take my word for terrorists also doing war crimes,

but my point is that this isn’t a new conflict. There’s a lot more if you look.