Thread 2 To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

[MistyMooPup]

First thread here:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/4916801-to-think-hamas-have-given-israel-the-excuse-they-were-looking-for?page=38

To be honest, after what happened, I don't blame him.

Israel is in a very weird position, being expected to provide supplies to sustain their opponents.

I can see that it seems counterintuitive, but it's a norm and law of war - applying to all partie at war, not just Israel - that civilian populations must be allowed the bare necessities of life.

Water is one of them. As for fuel, other countries can pay, but Israel (and if it were the UK, Peru etc...) needs to allow it through. Hospitals are protected by law and convention, as are water treatment plants.

As there is no running water, let alone sewage works, I'm certain that we're soon going to to see cholera and typhoid, which is entirely avoidable. Tony Blair, among others, is likely to have committed a war crime, by having the RAF bomb Iraqi water treatment infrastructure and then refusing even UN inspected replacement parts.

@WhiteHorseSpirit "Mr Ben Gvir isn’t inclusive by any measure:"

Maybe not but Israel is progressive in this area https://www.keshetuk.org/uploads/1/3/8/6/13861493/keshet_uk_factsheet_israel_mar13_v3.pdf

Whereas Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen, and Brunei have the death penalty for being homosexual.

Homosexuality is also outlawed in Egypt, Libya, Qatar, Syria and Gaza

So you are pro the settlers in the west bank who constantly harass the Palestinians there, to be armed?
You can just have a look at his twitter to see what he's all about

It's abit like comparing oranges and apples here aren't we
So I see you totally glossed over this terrible racist terrorist advocater, who is clearly a part of the wider problem in this war, onto something that's not relevant to the discussion at all

An excellent point, in fact, a fundamental one!!

The video clip you posted doesn’t show them crossing into Gaza though. It shows them pulling off at Rafah crossing and parking with the Egyptian cement barrier behind them with Gaza on the other side of the barrier/border. There are many fuel trucks waiting there in the hope Israel will allow fuel.

The Rafah border is a very narrow gate. (See photo). You do not see anything like it in the news video. The reporters were mistaken as shown by the Israel and UN links I have provided earlier. You are choosing to disagree with both Israel and the UN…very odd.

23 October 2023
“The World Health Organisation said the aid would include trauma medicines and supplies for 1,200 people, as well as 235 portable trauma bags to stabilise injured people on-the-spot, while the United Nations convoy included around 44,000 bottles of drinking water – a day's supply for 22,000 people, according to UNICEF.”
”The Israeli military said the supplies would not include fuel and would only reach those in southern parts of Gaza, after civilians were told to flee the north.”
https://www.trendradars.com/h/article-263812-first-humanitarian-aid-flows-into-besieged-gaza-as-rafah-border-crossing-opens/

I feel their right wing government is regressive in the area of LGBTQ tolerance. It’s bad for Israelis and Palestinians.

@WhiteHorseSpirit "Israel isn’t being expected to provide anything to Hamas.

They are expected to allow the aid from the rest of the world to enter Gaza for Palestinians."

They haven't stopped Egypt from opening the Rafah crossing, but Egypt chose not to do so.

Also not forgetting how many times Israel bombed the Rafah border.

@rosemaryandparsley you have been on many threads so I'm sure you know how the Rafah border is restricted partly by Israel. Especially in terms of aid
So unless you just like going round in circles

That is incorrect. Israel prevented Egypt from opening the crossing by repeatedly bombing it. They made it clear during many diplomatic meetings with Egypt, US, U.K. and UN that aid goes in on their terms, not Egypt’s.

Much like your fuel claim was also incorrect. I have to get to sleep now. But as of 45mins ago per the BBC quoting the UN no fuel has gone into Gaza.

@Parkingt111 "So I see you totally glossed over this terrible racist terrorist advocater, who is clearly a part of the wider problem in this war,"

So I see you have persistently totally glossed over the terrible racist terrorist advocators, who are clearly the cause of this war,

No I have not so you can apologise and take that back. I have said many many many times on various threads that I condemn Hamas and their actions
Why do you assume that because I am pro palestine that I am pro Hamas
Shame on you

Well, your posts tell me you're certainly anti-Israel.

Others can draw their own conclusions about where your sympathies lie.

This is the message the settlers and IDF are getting
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2023/10/14/these-animals-can-no-longer-live-says-israels-oldest-reservist

So another ignorant assumption. I see you are having trouble distinguishing between criticism of the Israeli government and policies and the ordinary innocent Israeli civilians

And according to your own reasoning you are anti palestinian?

Oh Aljazeera, fancy that !
A TV company funded by the Qatari Government.

Qatar have some interesting guests it seems....

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/israel-gaza-conflict-qatar-hamas-muslim-brotherhood/675702/

@rosemaryandparsley
It’s also on MSN. Watch the video. You know, funded by USA 🇺🇸 biggest ally of Israel

This is an IDF reservist in uniform being driven around by IDF to motivate the troops. He is recorded inciting genocide.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israeli-veteran-95-tells-troops-to-erase-palestinian-kids-he-calls-animals/ar-AA1iffAh

From Reuters -WHERE IS THE RAFAH CROSSING AND WHO CONTROLS IT?
The crossing is at the south of the Gaza Strip, a narrow slither of land that is home to 2.3 million people and wedged between Israel, Egypt and the Mediterranean Sea. It is controlled by Egypt.

From BBC News - But Cairo has kept tight restrictions on movement through the Rafah crossing for many years - to such an extent that many Palestinians have essentially accused Egypt of bolstering Israel's blockade of Gaza, which has been in place since Hamas took full power there in 2007.

Did you even read the article? There are many other news sites reporting the same thing not just Al jazeera. Even israeli news sites

Your tit for tat posts are not doing yourself any favours. Why not contribute and address what is actually being discussed instead

We were discussing aid coming in through the Rafah border
Go do a quick Google who has been hindering this process and still is limiting it

^
Israel's war crimes are far far far worse than that of a terrorist organisation.^

Well, I agree with you. Eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth and all that.

UK was never occupied by the Nazis. You have to understand the history of WW2. That's why Israel came about. Their own land.

Someone in another thread said: Abused often turn into abusers. True.

I've been in Israel and Palestine. (and worked with both). Just breaks my heart what is going on.

Im sorry but Israel controls the crossing by virtue of bombing it anytime Egypt even thinks about opening it without their approval. This has been an ongoing issue for the past two weeks.

“Following hours of talks with Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahuand his war cabinet, Biden said Israel had agreed to allow the opening of the Egypt-Gaza Rafah crossing to deliveries of desperately needed food, water and medical supplies on condition that the humanitarian assistance was not diverted by Hamas for its own use.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/oct/18/israel-hamas-war-live-news-gaza-hospital-west-bank-update-joe-biden-visit-protests-latest-updates?page=with:block-6530aea78f0858f6e93c8d7e

The reason it took five days to get aid through was due to the bomb craters from Israel bombing the crossing making the road into Gaza impassable and also Israel refused to guarantee safety to any Egyptian road crews who might attempt to repair it without Israel’s permission to make an exception to the total siege they declared.
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-biden/card/repair-work-starts-at-rafah-border-crossing-lGL9r39fEqu3l3n7vXAf