Page 4 | Thread 2 To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

MistyMooPup · 2023-10-22T21:55:04+00:00

First thread here: [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/4916801-to-think-hamas-have-given-israel-the-excuse-they-were-looking-for?page=38 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/4916801-to-think-hamas-have-given-israel-the-excuse-they-were-looking-for?page=38]]

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 22:19

Stomacharmeleon · 23/10/2023 22:09

Hamas needs eradication. The terrorists.
I have been on here years and am entitled to my opinion as you are yours.
It's on the bbc now.

Yes well we have seen various media using the dehumanising language of genocide. Media are well studied engines of genocide. That’s how Rwanda’s genocide took off…

Pollyputhekettleon · 23/10/2023 22:19

beachcitygirl · 23/10/2023 21:52

@Stomacharmeleon

Did you actually just say that "they need eradication"

What, like a final solution?

Beyond contempt.

Mumsnet HQ please please please investigate @Stomacharmeleon & ban this person.

What's your problem with eradicating Hamas? Would life imprisonment be ok with you?

Pollyputhekettleon · 23/10/2023 22:20

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 21:54

Yeah that sort of rhetoric by @Stomacharmeleon is inciting genocide.

How is eradicating Hamas genocide? What a strange idea.

SinnerBoy · 23/10/2023 22:21

I've no problem with Israel killing them all. Or jailing them, if they want to surrender and a crime/s can be proved.

Wonkasworld · 23/10/2023 22:21

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 22:19

Yes well we have seen various media using the dehumanising language of genocide. Media are well studied engines of genocide. That’s how Rwanda’s genocide took off…

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What on earth..

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 22:22

Wonkasworld · 23/10/2023 22:17

So you don't agree Hamas need eradicating?

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I don’t. Captured and tried by the ICJ is what needs to happen.

etmoietmoietmoi · 23/10/2023 22:23

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 21:54

Yeah that sort of rhetoric by @Stomacharmeleon is inciting genocide.

This is just emotive hyperbole.

She very evidently meant Hamas.

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 22:23

Pollyputhekettleon · 23/10/2023 22:20

How is eradicating Hamas genocide? What a strange idea.

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That’s not all they said.

Wonkasworld · 23/10/2023 22:23

No wonder some struggled to provide a logical way of dealing with Hamas. According to them, we shouldn't be dealing with them at all!

Alcemeg · 23/10/2023 22:23

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 22:17

It’s dehumanising on several levels.

Hamas has no civilians, so saying “Hamas hide behind their civilians” lumps Palestinians in with Hamas terrorists. Then claiming “Hamas are protected by” Palestinians implies they deserve the same as Hamas as terrorist sympathisers or accessories to terrorism. And then saying “They need eradicated” is collective- Hamas and “their civilians” and the word ‘eradicated’ is a word that means kill them all and is used for nonhumans- like “eradicate smallpox” or ‘eradicate bedbugs”

Please have a read of this:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/16/the-language-being-used-to-describe-palestinians-is-genocidal

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You've got in such a muddle here, I don't know where to begin unpicking your apparently wilful misinterpretation.

Wonkasworld · 23/10/2023 22:24

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 22:22

I don’t. Captured and tried by the ICJ is what needs to happen.

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🙄

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 22:25

etmoietmoietmoi · 23/10/2023 22:23

This is just emotive hyperbole.

She very evidently meant Hamas.

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Dehumanising hyperbole, aka rhetoric, of the sort known to incite genocide.
She lumped in Palestinian civilians with Hamas, so regardless of what she intended, what she said was rhetoric.

Wonkasworld · 23/10/2023 22:25

Alcemeg · 23/10/2023 22:23

You've got in such a muddle here, I don't know where to begin unpicking your apparently wilful misinterpretation.

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Indeed. In fact, somebody had their suspicions the other night.

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 22:25

Alcemeg · 23/10/2023 22:23

You've got in such a muddle here, I don't know where to begin unpicking your apparently wilful misinterpretation.

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Well I’m not alone in reading it for what it is. So perhaps think about that.

Wonkasworld · 23/10/2023 22:26

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 22:25

Dehumanising hyperbole, aka rhetoric, of the sort known to incite genocide.
She lumped in Palestinian civilians with Hamas, so regardless of what she intended, what she said was rhetoric.

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I thought you didn't like the term genocide.

Parkingt111 · 23/10/2023 22:26

On a separate note what an earth is Israel doing with having this man as their security minister. A vile vile man. A convicted criminal convicted of supporting a terrorist group?? Despicable man. How has this been allowed?

Ben-Gvir, a settler in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, has faced charges of hate speech against Arabs and was known to have a portrait in his living room of Israeli-American terrorist Baruch Goldstein, who massacred 29 Palestinian Muslim worshipers and wounded 125 others in Hebron, in the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre. He removed the portrait after he entered politics.[3] He was also previously convicted of supporting a terrorist group known as Kach, which espoused Kahanism, an extremist religious Zionist ideology.[6]

Israeli settlement - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlements

Pollyputhekettleon · 23/10/2023 22:29

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 22:23

That’s not all they said.

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Oh yes I see you did some hard work turning it into a genocide incitement.

I enjoyed this particularly:

She said: '(Hamas) are protected by people either by fear or misplaced loyalty.'

Strangely, you changed this to: 'Then claiming “Hamas are protected by” Palestinians'

So 'people' changed to 'Palestinians'.

I'm sure you didn't notice you had done that. You'd never want to misrepresent someone who disagrees with you to get them banned.

Pollyputhekettleon · 23/10/2023 22:30

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 22:25

Well I’m not alone in reading it for what it is. So perhaps think about that.

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Do you normally form your views based on how many people agree with them?

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 22:31

Pollyputhekettleon · 23/10/2023 22:29

Oh yes I see you did some hard work turning it into a genocide incitement.

I enjoyed this particularly:

She said: '(Hamas) are protected by people either by fear or misplaced loyalty.'

Strangely, you changed this to: 'Then claiming “Hamas are protected by” Palestinians'

So 'people' changed to 'Palestinians'.

I'm sure you didn't notice you had done that. You'd never want to misrepresent someone who disagrees with you to get them banned.

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Which “people” are in Gaza being bombed to death? Hmmm?
Thats not misrepresenting it is showing that putting in “people” for “Palestinian” fools no one as to the danger of such rhetoric.

Ratsoffasinkingsauage · 23/10/2023 22:34

Hamas need to go for the safety of everyone, including Palestinian civilians. But they will fight tooth and nail to keep hold of power and keep murdering in the name of holy war.

Anyone will fully defending Hamas by pretending they don’t steal aid form their own people, use children as human shields, commit disgusting atrocities and threaten the safety of anyone who lives differently to them is bonkers- as if Hamas would defend you with the same leeway you give them.

I think we all know how it would go if most of the ‘Free Palestine’ lot met their political idols face to face.

Alcemeg · 23/10/2023 22:34

SinnerBoy · 23/10/2023 22:19

rosemaryandparsley · Today 19:38

I'm afraid that your view is quite naive. Israel has blockaded Gaza and only a fraction of the necessities of life are getting through.

The Israelis (and all countries waging war, of course) have a duty to protect civilians and to do their best to avoid civilian casualties. Cutting off the water is antithetical to that solid, legal obligation; it's a war crime, just as it was when the Americans did it in Fallujah and Najaf.

Do you think it's humane for them to blockade fuel for hospital generators?

Wars are supposed to be governed by international treaties, with punishments for transgressors.

The trouble is that all the usual strategies used in war are inevitably going to harm Gazan civilians too, since Hamas deliberately hide behind/among them.

Israel is in a very weird position, being expected to provide supplies to sustain their opponents.

The ideal solution would obviously be to invite Hamas and their supporters to come out peacefully with their hands up. Hmmmmm...

Wonkasworld · 23/10/2023 22:35

Ratsoffasinkingsauage · 23/10/2023 22:34

Hamas need to go for the safety of everyone, including Palestinian civilians. But they will fight tooth and nail to keep hold of power and keep murdering in the name of holy war.

Anyone will fully defending Hamas by pretending they don’t steal aid form their own people, use children as human shields, commit disgusting atrocities and threaten the safety of anyone who lives differently to them is bonkers- as if Hamas would defend you with the same leeway you give them.

I think we all know how it would go if most of the ‘Free Palestine’ lot met their political idols face to face.

👏 👏 👏

Alcemeg · 23/10/2023 22:36

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 22:25

Dehumanising hyperbole, aka rhetoric, of the sort known to incite genocide.
She lumped in Palestinian civilians with Hamas, so regardless of what she intended, what she said was rhetoric.

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Oh look! You just lumped in Palestinian civilians with Hamas. You literally just mentioned them in the same sentence. So regardless of what you intended, you are inciting genocide.

Gosh, this is much more fun than logical debate!

ChickHenLittle · 23/10/2023 22:37

Ratsoffasinkingsauage · 23/10/2023 22:34

Hamas need to go for the safety of everyone, including Palestinian civilians. But they will fight tooth and nail to keep hold of power and keep murdering in the name of holy war.

Anyone will fully defending Hamas by pretending they don’t steal aid form their own people, use children as human shields, commit disgusting atrocities and threaten the safety of anyone who lives differently to them is bonkers- as if Hamas would defend you with the same leeway you give them.

I think we all know how it would go if most of the ‘Free Palestine’ lot met their political idols face to face.

So anyone who supports Palestinians is pro-Hamas? Political idols, really?
No-one here is defending them, what is it with these silly posts accusing anyone of supporting Palestinians supporting Hamas?
Stop insulting people's intelligence and accusing them of supporting terrorists.

WhiteHorseSpirit · 23/10/2023 22:38

Alcemeg · 23/10/2023 22:34

The trouble is that all the usual strategies used in war are inevitably going to harm Gazan civilians too, since Hamas deliberately hide behind/among them.

Israel is in a very weird position, being expected to provide supplies to sustain their opponents.

The ideal solution would obviously be to invite Hamas and their supporters to come out peacefully with their hands up. Hmmmmm...

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Israel isn’t being expected to provide anything to Hamas.

They are expected to allow the aid from the rest of the world to enter Gaza for Palestinians.

Their opponents are not Palestinians- or they should not be. The fact you think that Israel’s opponents are Palestinians means you are buying a narrative that justifies the ongoing war crimes.