Channel 4 News report into IDF evidence for Gaza hospital bombing

[Mammillaria]

This was released yesterday but doesn't seem to have been given much coverage, possibly because it's not been able to draw any conclusions.

x.com/Channel4News/status/1715437877604049094?s=20

I had found the evidence presented by the IDF to be fairly convincing, so I found this an unsettling watch (even though it does not prove that they were responsible).

I expect I shall get criticism from those who have claimed from the start that the IDF are liars, and more criticism from those who see posting this as siding with the terrorist narrative.

I'm still struggling to fully comprehend the enormity and nuances of this conflict.

I really think this didn't happen in the way you perceive it did.

Oh what an offensive line of questioning.

Do I want children to die, of course fucking not.

Should I ask if there is a limit to the number of Israeli children you'd like to see abducted, tortured and murdered? How would that go down with you?

Both sides are murdering children. It's appalling.

What would I like to happen? I'd like the Palestinians to immediately revolt against Hamas in disgust at their actions and give up the terrorists and for the abducted Israelis to be returned unharmed and for a grateful Israeli nation to stop bombing Gaza and get rid of Netanyahu and for a long-lasting peace settlement to be reached that everyone is happy with.

Chances of that happening?

The IDF are blowing children to pieces. They are killing children's families in front of them. These are real children. Real children with eyes like saucers, literally vibrating with terror from what they have been through. Real children all lined up in a row wrapped in shrouds. Real children with 40% of their bodies covered in burns and no medical supplies to ease their pain. Have you seen them? Seen these children screaming for their mums? How is this any better?

It is so upsetting seeing people condoning this. Laws are there for a reason, to protect children like the ones I mentioned above. Israel are breaking those laws. There are no excuses.

Which is why I linked to the article, which you were able to read. You're welcome.

As you know, the vast majority of people won’t read the link but will instead take it at face value that you have summarised it accurately.

I added the context which you had left out. You’re welcome.

It was for the benefit of other readers, not you Noble. I have no interest in indulging your dog-with-a-bone insistance that you are completely right at all times.

Noblegiraffe I feel I have a moral duty to disagree with anyone justifying the genocide in Gaza at the moment. As for Israeli children of course I do not want to see a massacre like the 7 th October again. However it was a one off incident. Israeli children other then the ones captured are not at risk at the moment they are actually safe , they whereas one child every fifteen minutes is being murdered in Gaza.

I didn't say it was a summary, I said it was a record of a senior Hamas figure saying that they didn't believe Israel has a right to exist.

Because upthread it wasn't clear whether they did.

That is all I said.

Keep going Noble.

Israeli children other then the ones captured are not at risk at the moment they are actually safe

That's a pretty big caveat isn't it? How do you think the relatives of the abducted ones feel about that?

I'm not justifying the genocide at all. What is happening in Gaza is awful.

But describing the terrorist attack as a 'one-off incident' (how do you know they wouldn't do it again??) and saying that other Israeli children are safe is a pretty grim and dismissive approach to such an atrocity.

Hamas wants to wipe Israel out. It is an uncomfortable truth for a lot of the pro-Palestinian pro-Islamist supporters and allies. I wonder if they think about Iran’s involvement. Iran is trying to become the dominant power in the Middle East and the Muslim world. It helps fund Hamas and it has spent years surrounding Israel with Islamist paramilitary groups.

For those who say the Palestinians should overthrow Hamas.

You asking them to side with the power that is killing their families and destroying their homes (Israel).

Do you think they're likely to do that?

However it was a one off incident

Coming back to this because I still can't believe someone wrote it. It wasn't a one-off incident, it's still ongoing because they abducted 155 people.

And how do you know the original slaughter was a one-off? You don't. No indication that they wouldn't happily do it again.

How do you ensure it was a one-off? You obliterate Hamas.

How do you obliterate Hamas?

Well there's the million dollar question.

I do hope you're not suggesting that the Palestinians are on the side of, or should be on the side of, the terrorists who committed that atrocity.

Hamas also do not appear to have the wellbeing of Palestinians as a concern either. They are not on the side of the Palestinians.

Iran has the worst human rights in the world.

This thread is part of the ongoing efforts to divert attention away from atrocities carried out against Israel and focus instead on the retaliatory action in Gaza. It is to do with trying to warp public opinion.

Well one way to obliterate Hamas would be to obliterate Gaza and all the people in it @noblegiraffe . If people say it's appalling but it happens anyway, is that ok with you?

But saying 'Israel should stop bombing Gaza' without saying anything about the hostages, or acknowledging that doing that doesn't deal at all with the terrorists who murdered all those Israelis and who are holding the hostages is just a facile, pious and pompous line that is apparently very easy to trot out.

Is letting the terrorists just do what they want with the hostages and get away with mass murder ok with you?

Neither solution is acceptable, I would have thought.

Scribbling - precisely. Cuddly Ol’Iran. Some of the geopolitical manoeuvrings have terrifying global implications for Britain and non-Muslims. Political Islam does have much time for infidels, ie most of this country.

The pro-Palestinian protestors in London glorifying in the slaughter of Jews or adopting a “it’s complicated” stance” sickened me. Babies murdered in front of their parents, teenagers gunned down, grandmothers kidnapped - all ignored. Ugly anti-semitism driven by pro-Islamists.

It was only a one off incident TO DATE because Israel up to that point had prevented Hamas committed such atrocities by having a massive big wall and very strong defences. If they could, Hamas would be there every single day committing evil unspeakable atrocities until every lady Israeli was dead. That's why there is a wall, a blockade, restrictions on Gazans entering Israel. Not to mention the frequent suicide attacks in Israel. Besides the "one off" rhetoric underplays the appalling nature of those attacks. It was gut wrenching and sickening just to read about what those monsters did.

These threads end up the same.

You cant criticise Israel or you're some sort of supporter of the holocaust and babies being beheaded

You cant criticise Hamas or the Palestinians that support them or you're calling Muslim's animals and dehumanise them.

The reality is that there are all sorts of shades of grey in this type of conflict. Israel are occupiers, have been for decades, encroaching on land that wasnt originally under the arrangements and in order to protect that, Palestine fight back against this but with the added belief that Jewish people shouldnt have their own state.

Its a mess but accusations on these threads just result in posters who talk about the nuance and both sides are shut down all the time

They are protesting against babies being murdered in front of their parents, whole families being wiped out, children being left injured screaming for their dead mums, children being left buried under rubble because they have no way of getting them out except by moving huge slabs of concrete by hand. They are protesting against state sanctioned terrorism, crimes against humanity and war crimes. They are protesting against a government that gives their hand of friendships to the leader behind all of that. Some people don't give a shit about religion, they care about humanity.

@Teentaxidriver how many war crimes have Iran committed, compared to Israel?

Israel is an illegitimate colonial settlement. Its a military wing of the US with a flag. And its brand has been shot to pieces, by its own terrible actions, over the last few days. And everyone can see it.

Israel is an illegitimate colonial settlement.

If you are serious about supporting a peaceful long term outcome in the region, this is not a helpful sentiment.

The biggest thing that has struck me in last week or so is how terrifying it must be to be next to a terrorist organisation who can attack with such barbarity and commit huge atrocities and that there are families are still hoping for hostages to come home

Up until October 7th I didn’t give much thought to Hamas. Now I see how awful it must be