DS(14) refuses to go on holiday with dad (ex-DH), but dad says he has to, no question - WWYD?

[Writer034]

My DS (almost 14) doesn't want to go on holiday with his dad, my ex-DH, and has twice told him this directly.

My ex-DH is saying my DS has to go, no question. They are meant to go on Sunday. Other people going will be my DD(nearly 16), a friend of hers, two grandparents (ex DH's mum and dad), and ex-DH's new-ish live-in partner and her child (DD, 5).

My DS is asking me to speak to the dad for him as he really doesn't want to go.

I've no idea how to handle this. Custody is 50/50 (informally) and I think my DC are both old enough to decide what they do and don't want to do (DS is almost 14 and DD is nearly 16).

If my DC didn't want to go with me somewhere and wanted to stay with the dad instead, I wouldn't dream of trying to force them.

My DS is giving two reasons for not wanting to go. One, because he just wants to chill at home and see his friends, as I've already taken DC on two trips. (One was a short trip to my home country where they have family they can only see once a year, therefore not 'just' a holiday. The other is the exotic holiday we've just come back from. In total kids have been away with me for 19 days but this was all agreed with ex DH beforehand)

The other reason is that he just doesn't enjoy being with his dad when dad's new GF and her young kid are there (they now live with my ex-DH and the entire dynamic has changed since they've moved in).

Ex-DH is already blaming me, saying this is the result of me having taken them away too much this summer.

What do I do? Do I speak to ex-DH to say DS doesn't want to go, and he should give him a break, as he'll only alienate him if he forces him? If I don't try to speak up for my DS, he'll feel he's got no one backing him up and, honestly, I don't think my child should need anyone's permission to stay at home with his mum - this is his home, even if he's normally here just 50% of the time.

I also feel it's my ex-DH's own fault for this situation because the kids used to have a brilliant relationship with him and adored going away with him. We did 8 years of fantastic coparenting, until he met his current partner; she moved in after a very short amount of time, they now also work together, and everything is focused towards her and her DD(5). My DC have said that they feel like visitors in their dad's house. Things between my ex and me have been very strained because of this (I have tried to advocate for the children), and I'm weary of making them worse, but I also really want to help my child feel supported and stay at home with me if he wants to.

Am I wrong to think he's old enough to decide? Please help - what's a reasonable course of action here?

when did 50/50 become disney dad?

Is the OP disney mum?

I think at 13 you have to be seen to not be blocking this holiday unfortunately. I'd say to your exH that your ds is very unhappy coming. I'd say to your son that he has to speak to his dad and try to explain how he feels but ultimately you can't stop your ex taking your son. I'd also see if I can arrange with your son and your ex for your son to come home early if he continues to feel so unhappy.

Like a PP I wouldn't be doing anything to actually help my ex do this, but I would be doing all I could to reassure my son.

Sorry it's a horrible situation. (I am a divorced mum too btw).

I can completely see why DS is reluctant. There is nothing in it for him. His Dad will be showing off to the gf and planning everything around her DD, his sister has a friend to hang out with -leaving him with the grandparents.
He is probably dreading being in the caravan with his bullying father who seems to have no interest in trying to understand why things have changed between them - and may just use any time they do have together to moan at DS for not joining in or something.
Could DS ask his father what is planned and whether he will have any choices? Can you ask your Ex what is planned for DS as he won’t want to do activities for a 5 year old all week? Can your DD and DS identify something they would really like to do there and ask their dad before they go?

I would usually say that at 13, there aren’t really any choices- but in this scenario, there’s nothing to make DS want to go …. And your Ex needs to fix that rather than just bring bullish about it.

Of course dad and girlfriend aren’t going to spend their holiday in separate caravans at night! 5yr old will probably be left with the dd and friend and girlfriend will nip to the dads caravan when they think ds is asleep.

Says someone who has no experience of parents tearing their hair out over school refusers! If they dont go, you get fined. If you physically force them, you get arrested!

The grandparents does change things. I’d think through asking him to go and saying he can choose when he’s 14, get them both on the phone and ask the dad what activities are planned for a teen? And what have you planned with just ds? And if the answer is none, then fair enough to say why would a teen want to go on a holiday planned for a 5yo, where his dad won’t have any time just for him? But if the answers show some consideration I’d suggest to ds he go, and spend some time with grandparents and his dad.

Your DS hasn’t asked for his parents to divorce and his dad to bring a new woman and a 5 year old on the scene. Her child’s too young - the whole holiday will be about doing things to entertain the 5 year old. Poor kid, he’s old enough to run away from home if he feels let down and not listened to.

If the dad really cared about his teenagers then the ‘family holiday’ would be three of them them. Or the five of them with the grandparents. Him taking a new partner and step child has changed the dynamic dramatically.

Maybe the Disney Dad reference was in relation to the five year old who he’s playing Dad to.

I wasn't talking about school refusers to that extent. I was talking about your average teen saying that they don't want to do something.

Would your ex be willing to come round to talk your son through it (calmly)? If the plan is for them to share a boys caravan maybe they can also plan some activities and make it clear the 5 year old will be doing something else - there's loads ex could do with the teens in Cornwall - fishing, surfing, kayaking etc. If, on the other hand, the plan is to revolve everything around the small child and new gf, I think your son would be justified in his choice to stay home.

He's getting to the age where really he should get to choose where he lives. His relationship with his dad might improve if he lives at yours full time for a while and sees his dad in a one on one situation (e.g. go out for breakfast/dinner or do a sport or activity together) as opposed to living half the time in a house that no longer feels like his home

If it were me I would talk to your ex and explain how your son feels about it. However, I think it is a bit late and should have been talked about ages ago. I would also tell your ds that it's only for a few days and encourage him to see it through.
My kids at 13/14 would not have liked this situation, mainly because they wouldn't have their own person there to hang out with and make it fun. If he had a friend the same age he'd probably have a great time. If you talk to your ex then he can make a point of making sure your ds isn't left out and do activities with him that he actually wants to do and that a 13 year old finds fun.

I'm in the same position. Talked it through with DS and made him realise
a) it's a holiday not a prison stay
b) his grandparents aren't getting any younger and he may regret not going
c) he has plenty of time to just chill.
That doesn't mean you can't comiserate and acknowledge his feelings about the new partner. Dont gaslight him about what is real and what isn't.
You can point out his dad has made concessions - 3 caravans and he's not staying with his new partner. He's tried to be thoughtful.
If he's upset it needs talking about - it's quite a childish gesture to throw his money and thought in his face.
Whenever a new baby comes along it changes the family dynamics. You can explain that it takes time to readjust and things can spiral around and parents are humans and get things wrong.
Encourage him to go because life is short. There are bigger battles for your son to fight. It sounds like a little boy is missing dad time. Can you explain this (without fault or rancour) to your ex and encourage him to have a couple of father/big kids afternoons?

So shouldn’t the dad be doing all that you have just said and having those conversations? And if the dad doesn’t then doesn’t the ds have a point?

Huge thanks to everyone who replied. Sorry I vanished last night.

A few answers to your questions: why am I rounding up the kids ages? Well, my son is 14 in a few weeks. (It's not of huge material difference)

DS has been saying from the start (holiday was announced a while ago, not ages ago) that he didn't want to go (saying it to me) and I've been telling him to talk to dad but the problem is, both of my children perceive the dad as very difficult / impossible to talk to about any issue. He either laughs and dismisses it, or gets mad and shuts down the conversation immediately. It's all very well for people who say 'you need to teach your kids to stand up for themselves', how easy did you find it at 13/14/15/16 to speak to a parent who won't listen? Who gets mad straight away, or laughs and walks away? Even I, as a grown up, if I'm totally honest, have to steel myself a bit to talk to ex-DH, because of the way he can be. He's not always like that (not with me) but is often enough that I know what he's like when angry and it makes me truly hesitate to go there, even as a grown woman.

For people who are saying DS is a bit spoiled. I disagree. He'd never refuse school (strange idea?!), and he's in my experience a child you can always work with. I ask him to make his bed every morning before school, sort out the recycling, go to the shop for me. He's always happy to do it. He's still of an age where praise from his mum means a lot to him and I find him cooperative, but I spend a tonne of time nurturing our connection. Chatting to him, forever watching videos he wants to show me on Youtube, watching films he enjoys, talking 1:1 in his room at bedtime (I do the same with my daughter, by the way - my connection with them is a massive priority to me, and there's no connection without attention and time spent together).

In the past dad has taken them on long weekends of exactly this kind of holiday and they've always been excited to go. Dynamic is different now.

It's a very long drive from where we live and I won't be able to pick him up (work) so if he goes, he's there for a week.

Thank you all! I'm at least relieved to see that people have split opinions meaning it's not just me being overthinking it, it really is a tricky situation.

Can you just go and pick him up from an activity or from his dads house (when dad isn’t there preferably)

I would do that and weather the storm.

Sorry final update - just to say, I've heard from my son this morning and he's decided to go after all.

Phew! Thats a good call on his part, to be honest. It buys a bit of goodwill and space from drama. Hopefully the week goes smoothly.

Thank you. I've spent half the night dreaming about this situation! (I mean literally - it followed me into sleep)

i’m sure once he’s there he’ll be ok, often it’s the thinking of it that’s worse.
Having said that though at least his Dad is on notice that these caravan holidays are probably not going to be the kids choice for much longer and he needs to come up with an alternative holiday if he wants to have time away with his older children

That's good news OP.

Kids of this age after don’t want to go on holiday with their families and of course they have to go. The new relationship maybe be a bit of a red herring (though I’m not down playing his feelings on the matter). If you want to advocate for him I wonder if you can talk to him and ex about what could make this holiday a more positive experience.

Great update!

This is so difficult for you and your son. We had the same in our extended family. One parent insisting a child went on holiday with them and new partner and baby. The child was a teen and absolutely didn't want to go. They did go in the end. The holiday didn't work. The relationship deteriorated even further and never recovered. 10 years on he barely sees his dad.
That's the issue. He probably can insist but that doesn't make a good holiday for everyone and it could do lasting damage to their relationship. You facilitating him not going is going to cause significant co parenting issues going forward.
We don't have a right to a good relationship with our children and things like this are where it starts to go wrong. We can be very complacent about assuming our children will always want to spend time with us and we should respect it if they don't as they get older.
But I think your children are old enough to be making their own decisions so the coparenting is going to be moving away from joint decisions for them to facilitating their decisions, which means it's less of a risk letting him stay eith you than it would have been 5 years ago. Your ex husband cooperation is less important going forward.
I wouldn't force him to go, but it's easier to say that when not directly involved.

Sorry, didn't see update. Good on him. Hope he has some fun.