DS(14) refuses to go on holiday with dad (ex-DH), but dad says he has to, no question - WWYD?

[Writer034]

My DS (almost 14) doesn't want to go on holiday with his dad, my ex-DH, and has twice told him this directly.

My ex-DH is saying my DS has to go, no question. They are meant to go on Sunday. Other people going will be my DD(nearly 16), a friend of hers, two grandparents (ex DH's mum and dad), and ex-DH's new-ish live-in partner and her child (DD, 5).

My DS is asking me to speak to the dad for him as he really doesn't want to go.

I've no idea how to handle this. Custody is 50/50 (informally) and I think my DC are both old enough to decide what they do and don't want to do (DS is almost 14 and DD is nearly 16).

If my DC didn't want to go with me somewhere and wanted to stay with the dad instead, I wouldn't dream of trying to force them.

My DS is giving two reasons for not wanting to go. One, because he just wants to chill at home and see his friends, as I've already taken DC on two trips. (One was a short trip to my home country where they have family they can only see once a year, therefore not 'just' a holiday. The other is the exotic holiday we've just come back from. In total kids have been away with me for 19 days but this was all agreed with ex DH beforehand)

The other reason is that he just doesn't enjoy being with his dad when dad's new GF and her young kid are there (they now live with my ex-DH and the entire dynamic has changed since they've moved in).

Ex-DH is already blaming me, saying this is the result of me having taken them away too much this summer.

What do I do? Do I speak to ex-DH to say DS doesn't want to go, and he should give him a break, as he'll only alienate him if he forces him? If I don't try to speak up for my DS, he'll feel he's got no one backing him up and, honestly, I don't think my child should need anyone's permission to stay at home with his mum - this is his home, even if he's normally here just 50% of the time.

I also feel it's my ex-DH's own fault for this situation because the kids used to have a brilliant relationship with him and adored going away with him. We did 8 years of fantastic coparenting, until he met his current partner; she moved in after a very short amount of time, they now also work together, and everything is focused towards her and her DD(5). My DC have said that they feel like visitors in their dad's house. Things between my ex and me have been very strained because of this (I have tried to advocate for the children), and I'm weary of making them worse, but I also really want to help my child feel supported and stay at home with me if he wants to.

Am I wrong to think he's old enough to decide? Please help - what's a reasonable course of action here?

What does your DS expect to happen if the next holiday is somewhere more "exotic", Presumably the gf and child will be going as well.

Has he thought about that side of this.

I am also somewhat supprised by the OP's statement that one of her holidays was a must do as its your family, but his parents that are older and it seems to be inferred not going to around much longer isn't.

Courts would disagree with you. The view of the kids and their preferences are taken into account from 12 ish onwards (and sometimes younger). If he doesnt want to go then its very very unlikely a judge would force him.

He is 14. Your ex has as much parental responsibility as you. If your ex says he goes then he goes.

This is so wrong. At 14 the kid’s wishes should be taken into consideration.

Why is the DS getting the blame? His father has the horn for a new woman and moved her into the teenagers’ home along with her 5 year old. This 13 year old is playing second fiddle to his dad’s sex life.

And how would you enforce that if he physically refuses to get into the car?

All this "He needs to be forced to go" in the thread....HOW?!

This

That sounds like a really thoughtful way for DS to have some quality time with his dad without the new gf and her child there, which must have taken a fair bit of negotiating and organising. Obviously they will be all in a group a lot of the time, but there will be opportunities. I generally agree that DS shouldn't be forced, but I think there's a chance it might work out well. I think DS should give his dad a chance, but on the condition that in future he will have a genuine opportunity to say "no thanks" and those decisions will be respected.

He is old enough to vote with his feet and not be punished for it.
advocate for your son and let him stay home.
anyone trying to force a teen to go anywhere against their will is not to be trusted.

your ex just needs to let this one go and improve their relationship.

So what happens when he doesn't want to do something else? Go to school? Visit relatives ? Do the dishes? Tidy his room? Anything he doesn't want to do? Why are so many people talking like they have no authority over a 13 year old?

Isn’t a holiday supposed to be fun for all attendees? Not analogous to doing the dishes or going to school. What sort of holidays do you go on?!

If you don’t encourage DS to go on this holiday, will his father be difficult about agreeing for him to go away with you next year? I’m not sure on current rules, do you need his agreement?
Meanwhile, I wonder if he feels a bit spare. Is there a reason why his sister has a friend going to keep her company, but DS does not? Would he normally be he hanging out with his sister on holiday but feels he’ll be left out because of her friend?
Im wondering if he suspects he’ll be lumbered with the 5 year old as every one else is paired up.
Could it be worth speaking to the GP and asking for their support in making sure he has a good time? I think it’s worth trying to have an open conversation with DS and his father to address what the issues are. If Ex won’t discuss it, can you put your concerns into an email ?
I think whilst you can encourage open dialogue between them, and explain to DS that not going would be disappointing his grandparents and his dad, you need also to get Ex to allay any fears he may have about being left out. The thing is, wanting to stay at home to play games because he’s already been away isn’t really a good enough reason not to go.

I don't think you can force a 14 year old to do anything. But in a non-divorced family there wouldn't be a option to stay home at 14. Ditto if you, OP, had planned to go away this week - your son would just have to go.

It isn't unreasonable of your ex to want his son to go on the family holiday. Could you talk to your son about how his grandparents would love to have him there - probably won't be many more holidays with them etc. Honestly I have a lot of sympathy for him but I do think he should just go. A holiday you don't particularly want to be on isn't exactly out of the norm for a 13/14 year old - probably the definition of what a holiday is at that age.

I'd also probably tell your ex that you are actively encouraging him to go but he needs to decide how far to push it if he won't go - because you won't be refusing him his home with you as an alternative.

Plenty of 13 year old would rather stay at home and see friends though. That's my point. It's something he is saying he doesn't want to do so in that regard it may as well be dishes or school. That was my point

Oof. Well. This whole story has taken me right back to the summer of 1998 when I roughly the same age as your DS, and me and my sis went on holiday with my dad, his girlfriend, and his girlfriend's brother and nephew. Which was awkward as fuck, compounded by the fact that it was a holiday based entirely around a hobby that was my Dad's passion, and no-one else's. In my Dad's defence, I think he had rose tinted ideas that all these people he liked would all be super excited and love each other and the activity as much as he did. We did not. (Disclaimer: I get on very well with his wife now, and we were teenagers, but...FFS Dad).

Peak chaos came when my sister's boyfriend happened to be visiting the next town and she wanted to go and stay with him for the night but Dad vetoed it because...get this...it was a Family Holiday, for spending time with Family.

Your story made me think again about what holidays are actually for. Good experiences? Relaxation? Family time? Because it sounds like your DS may not get any of those, not really, so I can't blame him for his reluctance. We sure didn't 😂 maybe ask his Dad what he thinks his son will get out of the whole thing?

If the dad is trying to be thoughtful to his son by them having a caravan to themselves then why hasn’t he sat his son down and explained that rather than dismissing his sons feelings and coming down on him like a ton of bricks?

This

Removing the split family element, if my 14 yo didn’t want to come on holiday it would be a case of tough, you’re coming. There would probably be a discussion to understand what’s behind it but ultimately, my dc are expected to come on a family holiday. Sounds like lines have been blurred and he believes there’s options open to him.

You can’t remove the split family element, because it makes all the difference in the circumstances. He does have options open to him.

That’s the whole point - you can’t remove the split family element. The son feels distant from his dad since his dad’s new girlfriend and small child moved in. If the family weren’t split there would be no girlfriend and no 5yr old 🤣
He is allowed to have those feelings and to be heard and know that he is being listened to. This isn’t as simple as a stroppy 13yr old not wanting to go on holiday in a caravan 🤦🏽‍♀️

I don't see the dad telling him he has to go, as bullying. It's just a parent making a decision, the same way as insisting a child goes to school, does their homework etc.
I've also got limited sympathy with the wanting to stay home and see his mates - he'll see them plenty in 10 days time when the kids go back to school. I don't see it as a hardship to have been taken on 3 holidays - some kids don't get any. A bit of appreciation for his privilege wouldn't go amiss.

That said, in your shoes I would try again to have a serious discussion with exh about the impact of his choice to impose a new gf and child is having on his relationship with his kids. And I would also point out that if he wants DS to go, he has to pay attention to DS needs and not centre everything around a 5 year old, who means nothing to DS! If he's not responsive, then at least you've tried and on his own head be it, when the kids cba to see him.

I would try to talk my son into going because of the grandparents primarily. And because no relationship ever improved by one person opting out. Dad deserves a chance and if you've warned him that DS is very unhappy about the chance at home and nothing improves, you can tell DS that this is the last year you will 'insist' he goes. Thrn make sure that exh is aware.

At 13 I think your DS should go on the holiday with his DF. Change is difficult but allowing him to avoid it does him no favours.
DS will learn to be adaptable and resilient.
His GPs and DSis will be there.

Advise your ex to engineer an hour of father son time each day of the holiday so that he remains connected to DS and hears his teenage worries and opinions.

Advise DS to explain how he feels about the NGF and to use those words to express his feelings politely to his Dad if he gets the chance.

Ask DSis16 to be kind to her brother on the holiday.

Is anyone really buying the "boy" and "girl" caravans?!

I do not for one second think that that will happen.

GF and her kid will be in the Girl van, and will just happen to "need" Disney Dad's help. DS will end up sharing with his older sister and her friend, just so that Disney Dad can get his leg over with the GF. Its being sold to the kids in this way so that he can look like father of the year to the new GF and to his parents.

I am prepared to bet £500 that Op's kids and the friend will end up on their own.

Let him choose. No court would force him. It sounds like a crappy time away fo a 14 year old

Team DS here. Being forced to go is not right or fair. Your exDH needs to be told the real reason he doesn’t want to go and if need be you pick him up. Your ex is acting like a dictator.