DS(14) refuses to go on holiday with dad (ex-DH), but dad says he has to, no question - WWYD?

[Writer034]

My DS (almost 14) doesn't want to go on holiday with his dad, my ex-DH, and has twice told him this directly.

My ex-DH is saying my DS has to go, no question. They are meant to go on Sunday. Other people going will be my DD(nearly 16), a friend of hers, two grandparents (ex DH's mum and dad), and ex-DH's new-ish live-in partner and her child (DD, 5).

My DS is asking me to speak to the dad for him as he really doesn't want to go.

I've no idea how to handle this. Custody is 50/50 (informally) and I think my DC are both old enough to decide what they do and don't want to do (DS is almost 14 and DD is nearly 16).

If my DC didn't want to go with me somewhere and wanted to stay with the dad instead, I wouldn't dream of trying to force them.

My DS is giving two reasons for not wanting to go. One, because he just wants to chill at home and see his friends, as I've already taken DC on two trips. (One was a short trip to my home country where they have family they can only see once a year, therefore not 'just' a holiday. The other is the exotic holiday we've just come back from. In total kids have been away with me for 19 days but this was all agreed with ex DH beforehand)

The other reason is that he just doesn't enjoy being with his dad when dad's new GF and her young kid are there (they now live with my ex-DH and the entire dynamic has changed since they've moved in).

Ex-DH is already blaming me, saying this is the result of me having taken them away too much this summer.

What do I do? Do I speak to ex-DH to say DS doesn't want to go, and he should give him a break, as he'll only alienate him if he forces him? If I don't try to speak up for my DS, he'll feel he's got no one backing him up and, honestly, I don't think my child should need anyone's permission to stay at home with his mum - this is his home, even if he's normally here just 50% of the time.

I also feel it's my ex-DH's own fault for this situation because the kids used to have a brilliant relationship with him and adored going away with him. We did 8 years of fantastic coparenting, until he met his current partner; she moved in after a very short amount of time, they now also work together, and everything is focused towards her and her DD(5). My DC have said that they feel like visitors in their dad's house. Things between my ex and me have been very strained because of this (I have tried to advocate for the children), and I'm weary of making them worse, but I also really want to help my child feel supported and stay at home with me if he wants to.

Am I wrong to think he's old enough to decide? Please help - what's a reasonable course of action here?

I am baffled by those who think DH and DS sharing a caravan will magically ‘bond’ them. They’ll just go there to sleep. New girlfriend will want DH’s attention and so will aged parents. Not forgetting adoring DD. DS knows he will be sidelined. If DH was really interested in strengthening the relationship, he’d be listening, not demanding.

Can you sit them down and have a calm discussion? Maybe suggest a time/ place when DS and DH can spend some time together when not on holiday? Do they have a shared interest?

I would emphasise to DH that forcing DS to attend isn’t going to make anyone happy or create a lovely family atmosphere and he’ll probably regret it very quickly. Circumstances have changed, the children’s ages have changed and you have to adapt.

Fourteen is old enough to have some autonomy and DS should be allowed to be heard.

Oh god that’s even worse. How far away is the caravan site - could you collect him if it’s really bad?
Or pick him up now?

Whatever the ins and outs, there's nothing good to be gained from making him go. He'll be pissed off, it'll piss everyone else off, there will be a row.
No one needs that on a large group family holiday.
Tell your ex that. No sense in taking someone that doesn't want to be there.

The thing that stands out for me is that Dad is “authoritarian” and is most likely to have got his parenting style from his parents, the GPs who are also on this trip.

So you’ll have:

Authoritarian Dad with new GF & 5yr old
Authoritarain GPs
Dd & DD’s friend

son

I can completely see why he doesn’t want to go. He’s probably going to end up entertaining the 5yr old, or being bullied by his dad &/or his GPs, whilst his sister is off with her mate and his dad is snuggling up to his new gf.

Sounds shit to me.

I’d tell your son that he’s welcome to stay at yours if he doesn’t go on holiday, but he needs to agree that with his dad. The sooner Dad knows that his kids don’t like the GF and want contact time to be with HIM not his new lover, the better.

Is there any chance of a compromise? You and ex meet halfway for the last part of the hol? Or Ds sees how it goes and you’ll pick him up if he needs? It sounds a tough situation as in any “normal” circumstances where dad was engaged, caring etc and DS was just being teenage then you’d be right to push him to go but this is different - you and DS both know it so you need to back him even if things go nuclear unfortunately. And I can imagine how hard that must be 😖.

Why do so many men fucking do this?! (eta...de-prioritise their kids when the new woman comes along).

Well actually I know why......its so that the new girlfriend will keep fucking him. Getting his leg over with new younger GF is more important to him than his kids.

Fucking prick.

In answer @Writer034 you do need to back up your son and tell your ex a few home truths about why he doesnt want to go. Realistically, it may be time to go back to court and get a child arrangements order sorted out that gives DD and DS the final say on what they do, given their ages.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned but could he go for a couple of nights and then get the train back/meet you somewhere? Would that be a compromise??

And what if it was your child who didn't want to go?

Agree, as someone who shares custody (or did, mine have aged out). It’s booked and paid for, you go.

I wouldn’t let a 13 year old bow out of any other holiday so I wouldn’t from this one too. You don’t want to go next year? Fine.

I’ve also had four 13 year olds and am very aware the world is all about them at this point.

As the kid who was always forced to go, who hated every second of it & resented my mum for never listening to what I wanted, please listen to him. He is old enough to know what he wants to do.

Bet it wouldn’t change the dynamics if it was a different trip.

Back your son. It's not on you to persuade your son to have a better relationship with his father, as long as you are not undermining him (your ex). That responsibility is entirely his father's, and if he's been screwing it up lately by prioritising his girlfriend and her child, then he needs to understand this; because he's clearly either not listening to his kids, not picking up on their distress at the current dynamic, or ignoring it deliberately because he's selfish.

It's complicated, isn't it?

The reality of shared custody is that you can't insist your ex does not take your son away on holiday. It's not up to you to choose.

If your ex wants your son to go on this holiday and your son doesn't want to go, then that's a battle of wills which needs to be fought between the two of them. It doesn't require the intervention of a third party. Don't let them cast you as their referee. Personally, I'd make it clear to both parties that I will not be trying to talk my son into going on the holiday and will not punish him if he chooses not to go, and then I would stay well out of it.

It doesn't even need to get personal or nasty. I don't think it's a good time for home truths. Emotions are already running high enough.

As a mum to three, I know that forcing teenagers to do something they are determined not to enjoy, like a holiday, is a losing game. They ruin it being miserable and rude then you get pissed off at them.
Waste. Of. Time.

Just tell the ex they'll have a better time without him. They will!

I really wouldn't get involved . This is between your DS and his dad. As long as he's not treating your son badly and he's a good dad it's not right to interfere in their relationship imv.

I’d tell your DH this. ‘Steve, you know very well that Jake hasn’t been happy since you moved Delilah in. What do you expect me to do? That was your choice. You’d be an idiot to try to force him to go because he will resent it. Let it go.’

One of my dc at 14 did not want to go on a family holiday.

(we were not divorced).
he staged a sit in protest at an attraction car park, and refused to get out of the car.

in these situations I tend to just sit with it, but his dad exploded and did a lot of shouting which did not make the situation better. Because there were other people around his dad didn’t ferl he could use force (not sure he would have anyway) so we all spent three hours in a cold car park with my husband getting increasingly angry.

honestly, this sort of shit happens in many kinds of families, divorced and non divorced.

if your DS is physically at his dads and they are due to be going and have no time with you before then then you do not need to intervene.

in all honesty if you do intervene it will most likely make the situation worse.

for the moment, step back. Answer the phone to your son, and talk to him about how he is feeling. Don’t offer a refuge with you at this point - he’ll take it immediately and it’ll transfer the conflict to between you and your ex.

with a bit of luck if your DS is stubborn and unpleasant enough his dad will conclude it’s not worth taking him on holidays anyway.

does your DS have keys to your house? If it all goes very pear shaped can he get out of dad’s house and to safety?

what you don’t want is them having a row at 11 at night and DS storming out and having nowhere to go,

How many days/nights is the trip?

Is his dad considering his DS’s feelings.

He has been told he doesn’t want to go by DS twice and he won’t take no for an answer

If he forces DS to go I don’t think
ds will be doing 50/50 anymore.

His dad needs to realise moving his gf in with her child he has pushed his own dc away. These are the consequences of his own actions.

It wouldn’t surprise me if forced to go, DS will be on the first train back before his df has realised he is gone

Im still waiting for the poster upthread to tell us how a 14 year old would be forced to go on the holiday.

This is the dynamic you should be more concerned about. Your daughter shouldn’t feel she has to do this but neither should she berate your son for not doing it.

Don’t make your son go. If your ex blames you then so be it.

OP, I am 100% with you on this.

This isn't really an issue about going on holiday when the matter is properly examined, and posters who are comparing it to a family holiday are really missing the bigger picture here (hopefully because they haven't had to experience the negative sides of blended family life).

Your son's life, and in particular his relationship with his dad, have been turned upside down with the unwanted arrival of dad's new GF and her daughter.

How many adults would be perfectly happy to have two strangers move into their home and have the entire family dynamic changed?! Yet we expect children to do it without complaint...

I think we need to accept that any separation of parents, no matter how amicable, brings upheaval and uncertainty into childrens' lives. Introducing new partners and children into the picture brings even more instability. I'm not saying its wrong to separate or for separated parents to find new relationships, but they must ensure that their children's best interests are at the heart of decisions they make and this could mean, for example, not cohabiting with a new partner. My dad's new wife, after my parents separated, was an awful woman and I will never forget the powerlessness I felt at having to share a home with someone who clearly disliked me and to have her know so much about my personal life. Even though my dad has thankfully ditched her since, it has had a lifelong effect on my relationship with my dad as well as affecting me more generally.

Your exH hasn't considered his son's feelings here. He doesn't deserve to drag him on a holiday just so he can play happy families and pretend it's all fine.

I would make clear to your son that, whilst he isn't old enough to refuse to go on a trip if the other parent is unavailable to have him at their home, as you are at home and willing to have him then you are happy to do so. I would call/message exH and tell him son clearly doesn't want to go and that you are happy to have him stay with you, I'd probably make out you're doing him a favour and reference the fact he can't make him go e.g. "Realise you're in a difficult position as its impossible to force a 14 year old into a car, but as I'm happy to have him you and the rest can enjoy your holiday as planned".

I'd really talk to your son about the difficulties he is facing and let him properly express all his feelings and what he wants to do about his situation. I think you will do this anyway as you sound like a really caring mum.

Finally - has this only been discussed with you since your son went to his dad's? Can you go tomorrow and take him out for a bit/bring him back home for an hour so you can properly chat to him, rather than just phone calls or texts?

After reading all the posts on this,my view is that if the girlfriend had anything about her she'd insist on backing away from the holiday and,if son agrees to go, let it be a family holiday with the grandparents.
Apart from anything else if dad manages to bully his son into going,the atmosphere is definitely not going to be jolly.
Wouldn't do any harm imo for her to stay at home,given how home life has drastically changed at dads house.

You've said exactly the right thing already .. your son can't be forced he is old enough to say he wants to give this trip a miss.. maybe when they're back from holiday your ex needs to realise how both of his children are feeling and spend time alone with them or he risks alienating them anyway..
Stick by your boy id do exactly the same x

I see you mentioned the 16 year old is taking a friend, could your son not take a friend too, maybe he would be more inclined to go then