DS(14) refuses to go on holiday with dad (ex-DH), but dad says he has to, no question - WWYD?

[Writer034]

My DS (almost 14) doesn't want to go on holiday with his dad, my ex-DH, and has twice told him this directly.

My ex-DH is saying my DS has to go, no question. They are meant to go on Sunday. Other people going will be my DD(nearly 16), a friend of hers, two grandparents (ex DH's mum and dad), and ex-DH's new-ish live-in partner and her child (DD, 5).

My DS is asking me to speak to the dad for him as he really doesn't want to go.

I've no idea how to handle this. Custody is 50/50 (informally) and I think my DC are both old enough to decide what they do and don't want to do (DS is almost 14 and DD is nearly 16).

If my DC didn't want to go with me somewhere and wanted to stay with the dad instead, I wouldn't dream of trying to force them.

My DS is giving two reasons for not wanting to go. One, because he just wants to chill at home and see his friends, as I've already taken DC on two trips. (One was a short trip to my home country where they have family they can only see once a year, therefore not 'just' a holiday. The other is the exotic holiday we've just come back from. In total kids have been away with me for 19 days but this was all agreed with ex DH beforehand)

The other reason is that he just doesn't enjoy being with his dad when dad's new GF and her young kid are there (they now live with my ex-DH and the entire dynamic has changed since they've moved in).

Ex-DH is already blaming me, saying this is the result of me having taken them away too much this summer.

What do I do? Do I speak to ex-DH to say DS doesn't want to go, and he should give him a break, as he'll only alienate him if he forces him? If I don't try to speak up for my DS, he'll feel he's got no one backing him up and, honestly, I don't think my child should need anyone's permission to stay at home with his mum - this is his home, even if he's normally here just 50% of the time.

I also feel it's my ex-DH's own fault for this situation because the kids used to have a brilliant relationship with him and adored going away with him. We did 8 years of fantastic coparenting, until he met his current partner; she moved in after a very short amount of time, they now also work together, and everything is focused towards her and her DD(5). My DC have said that they feel like visitors in their dad's house. Things between my ex and me have been very strained because of this (I have tried to advocate for the children), and I'm weary of making them worse, but I also really want to help my child feel supported and stay at home with me if he wants to.

Am I wrong to think he's old enough to decide? Please help - what's a reasonable course of action here?

You said it very clearly, your DS needs someone to speak up for him

He needs to tell his Dad what's bothering him, and it ought to come from him directly. Teach him to stand up for himself.

He'll have a better relationship with his Dad in the long run if he can explain his feelings about the situation.

Was DS keen enough to go initially and before his dad paid for everything? If he was, then I think he sucks this up and goes on the holiday he had agreed to. You don't get to change your mind and drop out of things once they've been agreed, organised and paid for. Tell him that in future he can choose not to go if he doesn't want to. It really depends on WHEN he told his dad twice that he didn't want to go. The last week or two? Nope, it's been organised.

On the other hand, if he's been saying he didn't want to go for months, then I wouldn't make him. I would tell your ex that DS made it plain in advance he didn't want to join them on holiday and that he is old enough to decide what he wants to do.

I have definitely encouraged this, the problem is dad is being quite authoritarian about this and won't listen at all (not listening has been an issue anyway). My son has spoken up about this twice but I don't know that he's got the bottle to go into it again, without some support.

Your ds is old enough to decide that. I’d pass it onto your ex on his behalf and then don’t enter into any discussion about it.

Your son needs to be honest with him and explain how he feels about the new family dynamics. Your ex has the right to move on and be in a relationship but he should also make sure he’s making time for his kids alone.

Would you really have been fine if your ex-DH had said DS didn't need to go on either of the trips you booked and paid for?

I think 13 year olds generally do need to go on the family holiday whether they like it or not. That's fairly standard teen parenting I think!

I can see ex-DH's point.

Keep him at home. If your ex isn’t happy he can apply for a court order and the court will decide what is in your son’s best interests. At 14 they will take his views into account.

In the meantime I would try to avoid getting into conversations with your ex that he could potentially twist again you and keep all communication to a minimum with factual statements only.

This is a really good point. The set up for the holiday is three large static caravans in Cornwall. One is for the "girls" (the new partner, her daughter, my DD and her friend who's coming for company). One is for grandparents. The last one is for the "boys". I think initially the plan was for my son to also have a friend come along, but he couldn't find anyone. Ultimately, I don't think that the costs are any different with or without him. It would have been three caravans regardless, I think. I'm not sure exactly when it was first mentioned that he doesn't want to go. Certainly, to me he's been saying it for a while. He has never wanted to go - there's no change of heart there - but has been plucking up the courage to tell dad.

I think you need to be fairly firm and say to your dc that he needs to consider his dads feelings who is looking forward to the trip, that he’s really fortunate to have been away on two holidays with you but he needs to realise that his dad has organised it and is excited to spend time with him.

i do think taking dc away for most of the holidays by you is putting you in an awkward position because you haven’t given ds time to see his friends on your time, not fair on his dad is it

Can you speak to your ex husbands parents? Would they help the case or make it worse?

I think he needs to say exactly how he’s feeling to his dad. He doesn’t enjoy being with his dad and new partner and child and would prefer more one to one time and he’d rather be home with his friends. Perhaps he could suggest they do something they both enjoy just the two of them later in the year. I’m happily married to Dh, but I still take my dc on holiday individually sometimes so we actually have quality time together.

Then you can come in behind and back him up. He’s 13, he can’t be forced to go.

We had a similar situation as I was keen for DD to be allowed to choose from that age and her dad was not. Both she and I told him she didn’t want to go. He insisted and I ended up holding space for her to vent about it as a fait accompli - it was up to dad, not us, what happened on his time, so she went. Twice. At 16 he accepted she could say no and then she didn’t go.

It depends a lot on how adamant the dc could be; at 14 they could physically not be dragged anywhere but mine didn’t think of that. On the upside, time on holiday could improve relations, we can’t know in advance exactly how things will go.

How much of this is down to where he is going.
Mum takes him on international, exotic holidays, whilst Dad takes him to a caravan holiday?

He needs to tell his dad the truth is that it’s not the same with the new gf and her child that he doesn’t enjoy their time together and it feels all focused on them.

But that’s going to be hard for a nearly 14 year old especially if dad’s very strict and is a my way or the high way type.

Can you text it to him? Or can ds text him about and then put his phone away for an hour and then check back on it.

Hmm most 14 year olds can’t be bothered for a family holiday and would rather stay at home. I see why this is especially unappealing - combo of having no friend, the step sibling the grandparents. I’d say he has to go but next year be clearer up front before the holiday is planned.

I would sell it as seeing grandparents, I think I would encourage it this time.

This is definitely something I have considered. The thing is, my ex DH is way, way richer than me (in fact, he's the one who's wealthy, out of the two of us) but he wanted to take his parents away as they're getting old, so this has meant booking a low key English holiday. In the past, he's taken the kids to Miami, Orlando etc. I've definitely not been the 'flashy' parent making him look bad by comparison, I promise you.

Is your ds going to be stuck entertaining the five year old, which very few 13 year olds would be interested in doing.
Whats the plans during the holiday, do they cater for the different age groups.

But this is exactly part of the problem. His the new GF and her child have been living there, ALL activities are aimed at the 5 year old. It's not the only problem but the dad has really not considered how different teenagers are and that they are people with their own needs. My DD is very, very loyal to dad and a peace maker so she goes along with everything (then she gets mad at her brother, because actually she doesn't want to go along with things but feels that someone has to)

Can he write a letter.?
This would take the confrontation out if it.
Say the dynamic has changed.
Father has changed
No one to one time.
Surely making this an obligation is going to damage any further relationship.
—& if this is not negotiable he can & will let a judge decide—

It's all kind of happening in real time, tbh. The trip is on Sunday. My son is on the phone to me right now. It's all going very very wrong :-(

Is he with dad now? That makes it harder but he just needs to tell him how he feels.

Dad would then hopefully make sure they have some father son time without everyone else sounds unlikely though.

I think this is a difficult one.

I agree your son should speak to his Dad himself but I do also think that sometimes 13 year olds may have to do what they don't necessarily want to. If you and your ex-DH were still together, would this be a decision you would be happy for him to make? (to not go on a family holiday?). Is his Dad kind and good to him? It is obviously different if he is abusive. Can you listen to his concerns and validate his feelings without getting in the way of his relationship with his Dad?

Before reading your update I thought that dad was being a bit unreasonable to try and force DS to go with him. He might still be.
But if the caravan set up is specifically to help them spend more one on one time together, and without your DS his dad would be in a caravan on his own, I can see his point. You’ve taken him away for most of the holidays so it’s not his dad’s fault he hasn’t seen friends.
I think you should have both discussed this more before booking. Kids do need downtime in the holidays to socialise and do nothing.

With my ex we discuss what we’re both planning so the DC’s are our main focus. Last year they went on a big 3 week holiday with him so I just did days out and some UK trips with them plus a solo holiday for me. This year it was my turn so dad has stayed in the uk for short trips.
I know some ex’s are difficult but it sounds like he’s trying to spend time with his son. I would be supporting him by reminding your DS of this to encourage him. But ultimately you can’t make him go. I do think he needs to talk to his dad.