to think some people on here have no idea what 16-18 year olds are actually like?

[Twile]

I’ve noticed that some posters on here seem to have no idea what parenting an older teenager is actually like.

Someone will post about their 16-18 year old being completely out of control - staying out all night, drinking, vaping, refusing school or college, being verbally abusive, getting involved with unsuitable partners or simply refusing to follow any rules.

Without fail, there are replies saying things like:

“Just stop them going.”
“Take their phone off them.”
“Ground them.”
“You’re the parent - just say no.”
“I’d never allow that”

It makes me wonder whether these people have actually parented an older teen.

A 16-18-year-old is not the same as a 10-year-old. They’re often physically bigger than you, legally have increasing autonomy, can leave the house if they choose, earn their own money and in many cases simply refuse to comply. You can’t physically force them to stay indoors, attend college, end a relationship or make sensible choices. And nor should you.

Of course boundaries still matter, and parenting doesn’t stop at 16. But the strategies change. You’re often relying on influence rather than control, and sometimes you’re choosing the least bad option rather than the ideal one.

They're all different-say a 16-18 year old has to be a certain way is like saying a woman/man must behave in a particular way. Some of the teenagers round here spend their spare time volunteering. Some of them commit crimes.

MN.

It might make you feel better to pretend that

being completely out of control - staying out all night, drinking, vaping, refusing school or college, being verbally abusive, getting involved with unsuitable partners or simply refusing to follow any rules.

is normal and common behaviour and all parents will have to go through that, but shocking news, it's not. Most parents don't let things go anywhere near that bad.

But whatever helps you, who cares. Good luck to you.

You can’t say it won’t happen in your family. It happened in my friends family. Her dd was the most gorgeous child kind thoughtful compliant. They were and are brilliant parents. Then the hormones hit it was an absolute nightmare for them 13-15. It was not their parenting or family. It really wasn’t. Their dd came through it and is now a lovely albeit fiercely independent thriving young adult.

I let my son take a cheffing job, knowing the risks. Thankfully, he's come through the danger with a lot of skills that will be useful all his life. He learned a lot, the hard way, and won't make many silly errors in future.

I agree, parenting evolves as we learn, but most of us tend to keep the same basic expectations and boundaries (of lack of, for some). Your last sentence is actually the most important point here. So many parents are so arrogant that they think they are the biggest, or sole, influence on how their children turn out. It's very often not the case.

You need to have the strategies and boundaries in place for your 10 year old or you have no chance of implementing them for a 16+. And actually you need to have started before your toddler is running the household. Yes, some teenagers are harder work than others but most are still financially dependent on their parents so you have some bargaining power.

It is funny when parents of toddlers give parenting advice to parents of teens. But after completing parenting of DC1 I would have been similarly smug, then DC2 became a teen and is a complete and utter nightmare (see user name). She has nearly broken us and herself…but, I am far less sanctimonious and much more humble now. I genuinely felt I was a shit hot parent 😂.

You can see the behaviour of a few kids before they even leave Primary School and you already know they will be the nightmare described.

Now no one can tell parents what to do or how to raise their kids, but often it's so blindingly obvious it will end up in tears, maybe someone should make a suggestion. They would be ignored anyway to be fair.

I am guessing perhaps that some people don't want to tell you what their teens are doing because they know you will judge them.
I am surprised you don't know any school refusers, I know loads, with parents at their wits end how to deal with it. All good parents and decent people.

I have two teens who could not be more different. Our parenting has been the same for both, but I have one party animal and one home bird. It's who they are. The party animal has been hard to deal with, putting boundaries in place constantly and trying to keep a handle on it all.

If I posted about my wilder teen, I would be looking for sympathy, empathy and maybe some outside the box ideas - not to be told "Oh, I just wouldn't be having that" "he'd be out the door if he said that". It's hard enough not to blame yourself anyway for everything without a ton of other people blaming you also.

Solidarity to anyone with a wilder teen, if you haven't, you just don't know what it's like.

Ultimately, 16-18-year-olds are as different from each other as anyone else is. There’s no one size fits all approach.

But if people are on here asking for advice, obviously people are going to reply with what works or worked for their family - they can only go by their own experience.

That doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t know what teenagers are like; it just means the teens they know are different people.

I used to teach in a secondary school.

it’s genuinely very common for teens to go through a difficult stage. Schools often have a lot of pastoral staff just to try to handle this. Invariably the parents are devastated, are very upset that this is happening to them and feel it isn’t fair because they put so much effort into parenting.

one in ten kids in secondary now vape and you can bet your life most of the parents don’t know.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/2024/10/almost-1-in-10-secondary-school-pupils-currently-vape-new-nhs-survey-shows/

county lines and illegal drugs are insanely common - the pastoral staff at the secondary I worked at were dealing with this pretty much weekly.

https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/what-we-do/crime-threats/drug-trafficking/county-lines

school refusal is a national epidemic with kids struggling with their mental health.

Nearly a third of secondary school kids have missed school due to anxiety and the rates of serious absence and home schooling as a result are way, way up.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/feb/02/almost-three-in-10-secondary-pupils-in-uk-avoiding-school-because-of-anxiety?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

if all this was fixable by better parenting don’t you think the government would have a campaign on it?

or do you think all the parents of the school refusers, the drugs mules and the vapers are just shit parents?

It starts with the micro misbehaviours, not these ones, it gets to this when you don’t stop the answering back, the slamming doors, when you don’t raise them with manners. Teenagers don’t wake up how you describe. It happens slowly overly time when not managed. That is my honest feeling, until I experience otherwise.

I'm glad you didn't have this. But you are wrong.
Hope that helps your empathy.

I don't think either of you are wrong.I agree with Delphiniumandlupins
you need to have boundaries from day one. I think we all could predict which parents are more likely to have challenging teens from toddler days. Sometimes though, a curve ball is thrown and no one should feel smug.

I think YABU as a parent of an about to turn 16yo. Yes you need different parenting strategies and yes it's bloody hard work but you can stop them doing things.

Last week I took his phone off him and hid his card which made it a lot harder to just go out. If he were really out of control then there would be punishment linked to freedom phone and money.

We also kept him in a lot more at the end of the week to study and we are constantly saying no to requests.

Can I force him to study for gcse? Nope. Can I stop him from being vile to me? Nope. Do i know for certain he's not drinking or vaping? Nope (but he has drunk alcohol on my watch and vaped which i found out about). Do I pick my battles? Absolutely. Am I failing as a parent still? Probably.

I think there is an element of needing to step up as a parent at times but obviously you're long past the naughty step...

And guess what? Many teens who are being a complete pita for their parents behind closed doors, can be charm personified to other random adults! You never really know what’s going on with other families - most do not broadcast their struggles.

Im going to controversially suggest that there is a possibility that a strong relationship with your parents is a slight protective factor and perhaps parenting that has relied on 'boundaries' and strategies that work with toddlers like taking things away or a more grown up equivalent of stickers, less so?

I remember a patch when my son was about 4 and i was spending a bit of time just picking him up and carrying him out of places when he played up. I realised I couldnt do that much longer so id need to something different.

staying out all night, drinking, vaping, refusing school or college, being verbally abusive, getting involved with unsuitable partners or simply refusing to follow any rules.

I'm 25. My sixth form years were not like this at all. My parents are Indian and from birth I was conditioned to follow their rules. Yes there was light corporal punishment in primary, but this got me on the right track and made me pass by 11+.

I only drank in 6th form because others did and I had FOMO. I had no interest until I just saw others do it. I only did it a few times. Now I don't care for alcohol and just don't enjoy it and how it makes me feel. I detest alcoholics. I knew one in school (Irish) and all she cared about was getting drunk and drinking. All due to liberal parenting. I never smoked or vaped because I want healthy lungs, to be able to breath and not to get lung cancer. Never school refused because I had parents who parented me and I was actually smart. Was never verbally abusive to my parents. I've had crushes on decent people, they didn't feel the same way but that's it. My parents don't let us sleep around and hookup with randos and shag like animals. I think that's a good thing.

Guessing that's just how Indian parents since they actively parent.

Because they are normally so fucking rude to posters who do have knowledge of that age group. Yes my kid might be totally different to yours but their friends might be similar. I am sitting on a reply to a poster from earlier today on a different topic who told me categorically what I had posted was wrong. It isn't, and it is precisely why I posted.

You wouldn't.
Others on MN would, because they've heard of someone who got an electric car or went to Germany. Or France, because they didn't bother to read the OP.

There's nothing special about teenagers being the subject of lazy, unevidenced 'suggestions'. Loads of threads get bogged down with guessing, projections and imagination.

Some of the most challenging teens are actually those who were incredibly compliant as younger children.

i had a girl in my tutor group who had anorexia.

she was perfectly behaved. And I mean perfectly behaved. She did every bit of homework and it was always on time and always beautifully presented. She was always clean and her uniform was always smart.

she had hobbies outside the house that she really enjoyed and was good at.

she was also a perfectionist and believed that she didn’t have any worth unless she was absolutely perfect. She believed that the perfect teen was thin and blonde and beautiful and she was damn well going to be that teen.

her parents had to work so, so hard to get her to eat and to help her accept that no-one is perfect and she was allowed to do things wrong.

setting boundaries and high standards can lead to these sorts of problems - and they are genuinely very hard to fix.

This is peak Mumsnet, adding the mine were 75% that way 😂 like on style and beauty ‘I’d never spend £3,000 on a bra, even though I could afford it, because …’

I genuinely don't. They might moan about it, and grunt about having to leave on time, but all the kids turn up to school, turn up to training, tend to resent their parent for existing and die of embarrassment if you say "hi" to their friends in public 😂

By they time they are 18, they have grown out of it anyway.

I would be very worried to have a perfectly obedient child or teenager, that's not normal either, but not the full on refusal, physically and verbally abusive teen described in the OP.

If I posted about my wilder teen, I would be looking for sympathy, empathy and maybe some outside the box ideas
most people won't dare being honest though. They probably honestly believe you should be doing this or that, but most people won't be anything but politically correct or just vague about "being firm".

And if he hadnt given you his phone? Would you tackle him to the floor for it? How would you have got it?

And if he knows kids who are doing a little deal here, a little deal there and so he gets his own money, a tenner here, twenty quid there, so he buys himself his own phone and credit, then what?

Accessing accounts via others phones so he still has access? Then what?

Im asking you to find out the strategies by the way, not questioning what you've said already

I can't imagine what it's like to be a parent of a child with anorexia. I think it must be one of the hardest things to go through (in a very crowded field of awful things).
There's a lot of old-fashioned assumptions about it.