AIBU to consider leaving our knitting group over its new policy?

[Solentseeker]

I’m in a women’s knitting group. It started as just a group of friends and extended from there. We meet twice weekly in an hall that has to be booked and paid for and go on trips etc so it has become more formal over time and has a treasurer, secretary, social secretary etc. I and two other friends were founder members but we take a back seat in the organisation now. We attract lots of younger members (30-somethings!) which is great. I (early 60s) love socialising with people, hearing their views etc.

The new chairman (woman) has recently decided that we should announce that we are ‘trans friendly’ and try to attract trans women and non-binary people. Apart from the fact that I don’t know what non-binary people are other than people who don’t sign up to gender stereotypes (most of the women currently in the group don’t go in for nails / make up / fake tan etc anyway so what’s the difference?) I don’t want men in the group, trans identifying or otherwise. I’ve been sexually assaulted a few times in my lifetime, as has another of the founder members. We’ve also always appreciated having a space away from the male gaze and voice, where women can have their voice centre stage for once. I know a number of the current members are also extremely concerned about this new push and would feel pushed out too if any men join.

I have no desire to ‘out’ myself as a ‘TERF’ by complaining or pushing back as it would in their eyes make me a ‘bad’ person and I always try to do good by everyone. I just disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that men should be treated as women because they say so. It seems so seething misogynistic. I’m deeply sad about the whole situation and think I’m going to have to leave the club, because the current chairman seems to stand for things that I don’t. I appreciate women’s rights and they don’t seem to give a fig. What do politics have to do with knitting? Do I just leave? Do I wait and see whether any men try to join before leaving? I can’t be arsed to fight back even though I would have a LOT of (currently silent) supporters.

I think you need to speak up and out about your preferences. Clearly you dont need to give reasons, unless you choose to. Others are not mind readers. I say this a lot on here. You cannot hide below the parapet/radar etc and expect others to do the hard graft for you. The conversation does not have to be confrontational, but it can be direct.

You stick to your guns as an original founder and say you’re not happy. It if still gets pushed, request a group vote and if everyone does want the new system to go ahead then leave the group and the nutty leader.

Is there likely to be a population of trans knitters where you live? It's quite a niche. If transpeople account for 0.55% of the population and some of those will be transmen then the likelyhood of a transwoman knitter signing up to your group doesn't sound very high.

There needs to be a whole club vote on this.
If you lose then set up your own group with the other members who hold the same views as you do.

You can leave for any reason you choose 🤷‍♀️

What do politics have to do with knitting?

I had to accommodate a knitting group when I worked in a library and there was very little knitting done anyway. It was mostly conversation.

I don't think it is.

Well they won't be able to call it a women's group if they go ahead. Legally they will have to stop that and just call it a knitting group, or some other name.

I don’t understand why a hobby group like knitting has to be reserved for one sex only. This is no different from golf clubs refusing to admit women because of a long history of them being men’s clubs. I happen to have known several men who could knit, hand embroider, cross stitch and crochet. Who do you think knitted fish nets and designed fisherman jumpers of Scotland? Men.

Sorry, I think you are being unreasonable to exclude any human being from the hobby of knitting due to their sex.

The subject matter is irrelevant. A Chair can't just decide what they want to do, that is not how clubs and societies work. Their job is to chair meetings at which the committee members take decisions, and only has a casting vote in the event of a tie. They do not have the authority to take arbitrary decisions alone.

Having been on a number of committees in the past, this is not the sort of decision that can be made by the committee at a committee meeting. It is a fundamental change to the aims of the society, therefore it would have to be voted on either at the AGM or at an Extraordinary General Meeting, and all the members should be able to vote on it.

It’s not unreasonable at all.

life isn’t about just avoiding assault. We are allowed to take part in activities that we enjoy, in an atmosphere we are comfortable in. It’s perfectly reasonable that sometimes women would want to spend time just with other women. The same in reverse for men which is why groups like ‘men’s shed’ exist.

TW are men, so their presence in a women only group changes the dynamic.

I would just stay quiet and see if a trans person joins, and if they do, if you like him/her/them. There tend not to be that many of them in real life.

This woman is virtue-signalling. I’ve never come across a trans person in an actual social situation - just as a stranger on public transport in London. There are remarkably few of them, they just have active lobbyists/campaigners.

Why should there be a vote? Imagine white people getting to vote on whether Black people can join their book club. This is no different. Some values are nonnegotiable and can’t be left to mob rule.

Perfect response, reasonable and not jumping to conclusions that seem to me to be wildly unlikely - so wait for the transwomen to join and THEN make a decision to leave.

I doubt there will be crowds of trans people queuing up to join a knitting group. There probably won't even be any takers so just sit tight.

I agree. And then it is a knitting group, not a women's knitting group, and anyone can join which would be good.

And any women who want their own, and I can see why they might, can set up another one just for women.

Everyone should be happy! (But they won't be....)

Men’s Shed isn’t a hobby group, it’s a medical charity specifically for mental health to counter isolation and loneliness because men are at higher risk of suicide. The correct comparison to men’s shed is a rape center for women or a breastfeeeding support group for women,

I don’t blame you - to be honest I don’t want men in my sewing group trans or otherwise! They can go off and do their own stuff !

You might get Tom Daley

Yes, it’s a knitting group, not a women’s group. There’s no ethical or legal reason to exclude men from a knitting group. If some women want to form a clique in a corner, they can.

There is a committee and a constitution. That means that there is a set procedure for decision-making which should be followed.

Why is this the same thing? White people are white people, black people are black people these are objective facts. TW are not women so your argument is a false equivalency isn’t it? Unless you think it would be ok for a white person to identify as a black person and make changes to their appearance that they feel would allow them to ‘pass’ as black? And then to self identify into groups/award/opportunities that had been created specifically to meet the needs of black people.

Why don’t you say chairwoman?