AIBU to consider leaving our knitting group over its new policy?

[Solentseeker]

I’m in a women’s knitting group. It started as just a group of friends and extended from there. We meet twice weekly in an hall that has to be booked and paid for and go on trips etc so it has become more formal over time and has a treasurer, secretary, social secretary etc. I and two other friends were founder members but we take a back seat in the organisation now. We attract lots of younger members (30-somethings!) which is great. I (early 60s) love socialising with people, hearing their views etc.

The new chairman (woman) has recently decided that we should announce that we are ‘trans friendly’ and try to attract trans women and non-binary people. Apart from the fact that I don’t know what non-binary people are other than people who don’t sign up to gender stereotypes (most of the women currently in the group don’t go in for nails / make up / fake tan etc anyway so what’s the difference?) I don’t want men in the group, trans identifying or otherwise. I’ve been sexually assaulted a few times in my lifetime, as has another of the founder members. We’ve also always appreciated having a space away from the male gaze and voice, where women can have their voice centre stage for once. I know a number of the current members are also extremely concerned about this new push and would feel pushed out too if any men join.

I have no desire to ‘out’ myself as a ‘TERF’ by complaining or pushing back as it would in their eyes make me a ‘bad’ person and I always try to do good by everyone. I just disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that men should be treated as women because they say so. It seems so seething misogynistic. I’m deeply sad about the whole situation and think I’m going to have to leave the club, because the current chairman seems to stand for things that I don’t. I appreciate women’s rights and they don’t seem to give a fig. What do politics have to do with knitting? Do I just leave? Do I wait and see whether any men try to join before leaving? I can’t be arsed to fight back even though I would have a LOT of (currently silent) supporters.

I think maybe it’s a bigger question. Do you need new members? Or are you only advertising to let people who are already interested seek out the group? Is it an activist knitting group doing lots of yarn bombing?
Otherwise, perhaps this level of information should be on your Facebook group/website in the small print.
I would have thought if a transwoman (or transman) was interested in knitting they would either ask or just turn up. If as a group you are trying to get a more diverse selection of women into knitting that should be decided on officially.

Or simply 'Chair' as I did. That is the accepted term these days.

I'm.in a crafting group who hire a hall. We are a bunch of friends and it's not open for anyone to join. It's just us as friends. Maybe set up a breakaway group and set up a closed group? This way there's no committee, no treasurer. No accounts. Nothing. If we make any plans it's all lovely as we all agree on most things if not it's majority rule. Easy peesy. Set up the group you want.

How many geezers knit?

'I don't want women in my golf club. They can go off and do their own thing'.
Does that sound right, to you? It's what was said for many years, gatekeeping a sport.
We absolutely shouldn't be gatekeeping hobbies like this, as though knitting/sewing is a 'woman's thing'.
It's one thing to want spaces for women. It's another thing to attach that to specific hobbies/crafts. Women have been victims of male gatekeeping like this. If it's an open group, not a friends only group, that meets in a public space like a community centre, not somebody's house, I absolutely don't think hobby groups should be gender-divisive.

Yes, as long as it doesn't claim to be a women's knitting group, that'd be the way to go. As you say, no reason why men of all stripes shouldn't want to knit. Just not in a group called a women's group.

Then other women who want a women's knitting group can have one.

A bit like the women's institute which has had to do just this.

My grandad was an ace knitter. He was in the trenches in WW1. He knitted socks, and he traded his socks for baccy. Knitting is knitting.

Males weren’t gatekeeping golf they were gatekeeping business opportunities and networking which was compounding the gender gap in higher position roles and directly discriminated against women by preventing them from progressing. that’s why it was considered justified to open those groups to both sexes. Even so there still are some Men only groups and clubs that exist today, just not as widely.

I think if she wants to open it up to people who aren't women then it's not a question of it being "trans-friendly" it's just changing it from being a "women's knitting group" to being a "knitting group".

Maybe ask if this is the intention and see if people are happy that anyone of any sex can join so long as they knit. If the majority are , then so be it but trans or otherwise is irrelevant. If most still want it to be women only then, well you get an interesting debate!

😆 🤣

That's a false equivalence. A better example would be a black or BAME hiking group which wants to allow white people to join. That would fundamentally change the ethos of the group which is to support black/BAME people specifically.
OP's knitting group was set up for women and we all know that introducing men to pretty much any social situation means they will come to dominate, regardless of how they identify. As PP has suggested, many organisations of this type have a constitution so hopefully any change to the original objectives would need to be put to a vote at an AGM or EGM.

Why does she want to attract these members?

Fair enough if a trans person just joins anyway.

Except it doesn’t apply when it comes to basic human rights laid down English Law. No committee can make a decision contrary to the laws of the country.

A) not the same thing WHATSOEVER

B) if some things are non negotiable, you're implying that there's no circumstance in which women can push back here. By your logic, men could have access to whatever single-sex space they chose because we can't have mob rule by saying actually there's a line.

She's not excluding anyone from the hobby of knitting. How could she even do that? Does OP claim the power to rule on who is and is not allowed knit? Lol, no. She's just excluding men from one group for women that developed from the friendship of a couple of women. Plenty of other knitting groups around for those looking for a more inclusive group.

I don’t agree it’s a false equivalence. Suicide is a serious medical issue. A social group designed to encourage minority immigrants to learn local activities is nothing like that.

But other questions I have:

• What sort of trips do you have that are knitting related?
• Do you accept people who crochet?

I'd like to reply but I'm afraid my answer might be a bit woolly.

Knitting's knitting - but we all know how the presence of a man changes how women socialise. Some women can't, and some women simply don't want to be part of a social group that has men in it. I wouldn't want some bloke mansplaining patterns to me, I'd join the Rotary if I did.

A knitting group that is only for women is excluding men from the knitting group.

There is no whisper of that then meaning exclusion from the entire hobby of knitting, to even write that as a serious reply shows you lack critical thinking skills.

Why are you suddenly talking about suicide, are you suggesting that not being able to join a women’s knitting group would be the cause of someone committing suicide?

Im going to be upfront here and say that as someone who lost a parent to suicide I find it revolting when anyone weaponises it as a threat to get people to fall in line.

How are they "excluded from the hobby"? They are only excluded from this group.

It will no longer be a womens group, just a group. And the op, and others, then simply decides if it's still a group they want to be in.

The logic is that a knitting group does not meet the legal requirements for which a single sex space is both necessary and legal. That is what is non negotiable, you can’t just say I want it to be women only therefore it meets the requirements for a single sex space.

So you would agree that Black people, Muslims, Wiccans, Asians, disabled people, immigrants etc.., etc.. cannot create book clubs that exclude non-Blacks, non-Muslims, non Wiccans, non-Asians, non-disabled people, non-immigrant people etc... etc... ? And my local senior centre must now allow people of all ages to use their facilities free of charge just like the seniors?