AIBU to consider leaving our knitting group over its new policy?

[Solentseeker]

I’m in a women’s knitting group. It started as just a group of friends and extended from there. We meet twice weekly in an hall that has to be booked and paid for and go on trips etc so it has become more formal over time and has a treasurer, secretary, social secretary etc. I and two other friends were founder members but we take a back seat in the organisation now. We attract lots of younger members (30-somethings!) which is great. I (early 60s) love socialising with people, hearing their views etc.

The new chairman (woman) has recently decided that we should announce that we are ‘trans friendly’ and try to attract trans women and non-binary people. Apart from the fact that I don’t know what non-binary people are other than people who don’t sign up to gender stereotypes (most of the women currently in the group don’t go in for nails / make up / fake tan etc anyway so what’s the difference?) I don’t want men in the group, trans identifying or otherwise. I’ve been sexually assaulted a few times in my lifetime, as has another of the founder members. We’ve also always appreciated having a space away from the male gaze and voice, where women can have their voice centre stage for once. I know a number of the current members are also extremely concerned about this new push and would feel pushed out too if any men join.

I have no desire to ‘out’ myself as a ‘TERF’ by complaining or pushing back as it would in their eyes make me a ‘bad’ person and I always try to do good by everyone. I just disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that men should be treated as women because they say so. It seems so seething misogynistic. I’m deeply sad about the whole situation and think I’m going to have to leave the club, because the current chairman seems to stand for things that I don’t. I appreciate women’s rights and they don’t seem to give a fig. What do politics have to do with knitting? Do I just leave? Do I wait and see whether any men try to join before leaving? I can’t be arsed to fight back even though I would have a LOT of (currently silent) supporters.

Gender identity isn't a protected characteristic. Gender reassignment is, and sex is, but not gender identity.

My DP would agree with you. He works in a very male dominated tech field, he said he’s come across very few of either women or trans identified males, but more trans identified males than women. Which considering women are half the population is quite stark.

Thank-you!

That's what I was referring to. Fairly obvious I would have thought.

Yes, but I was quite clearly referring to the legal position. I'm not a human rights lawyer so apologies for getting one word wrong on the internet. 🤔

Yes, women can be arses, But I'm not worried they might rape, beat or murder me or any other woman who happened to piss them off. Massive difference. Duh

Someone asked you what gender identity was
You said look it up
So i did.

How was anyone meant to know you meant look up gender reassignment even though that isnt what I was asked about?

Well, if you weren't so busy trying to start an argument in an empty room over semantics you'd realise that the initial quote you picked up on from me was about the Equality Act, and it was clear I was referring to the legal position.

You think a trans woman is going to violently assault you in the middle of a knitting circle?

Although, I suppose the weapons ARE handily already there.

But it’s about the principle- this is a women’s only space and therefore no men )however they identify) should be there.

Is it about being fearful of violent assault OR the principle? It can't really be about both, can it?

Of course it can.

That's a massive generalisation. IME, most trans women are quite quiet individuals who just want to get on with their lives. And I've certainly come across a hefty proportion of women who want to dominate any group they're in.

That isn't a response to any post of mine.

It IS about both, as in essence they are both about the same thing. Women are conditioned biologically and socially to (a) recognise men and (b) be wary of the threat from them (this is the basis of the ‘fear’). This can be managed by mixed activities having rules and norms which help women feel safer or by excluding men (this is the basis of the ‘principle’). In some circumstances, the ‘fear’ may even be manipulated to advantage, eg in role-play sex, crime drama and performing arts. When men are present (even those who think they are women), women usually detect them and react accordingly, subconsciously or not. This changes the dynamic. In fact, it has been said that most transwomen can only ever portray the male-present side of women they see. Generally they can never experience being with women without a male present, as they are one. Women-only groups exist to enable women to meet without hypervigilance, threat and control. OP’s view of the knitting group is that it is one such group.

Glad you’ve experienced the quiet want to get on with their lives variety, I’d hoped there were some. I’ve almost always encountered the ‘I will speak for and over women’ variety that don’t let women have a voice but I did encounter one outside of work environment that acted like a little girl instead 🤮