AIBU to consider leaving our knitting group over its new policy?

[Solentseeker]

I’m in a women’s knitting group. It started as just a group of friends and extended from there. We meet twice weekly in an hall that has to be booked and paid for and go on trips etc so it has become more formal over time and has a treasurer, secretary, social secretary etc. I and two other friends were founder members but we take a back seat in the organisation now. We attract lots of younger members (30-somethings!) which is great. I (early 60s) love socialising with people, hearing their views etc.

The new chairman (woman) has recently decided that we should announce that we are ‘trans friendly’ and try to attract trans women and non-binary people. Apart from the fact that I don’t know what non-binary people are other than people who don’t sign up to gender stereotypes (most of the women currently in the group don’t go in for nails / make up / fake tan etc anyway so what’s the difference?) I don’t want men in the group, trans identifying or otherwise. I’ve been sexually assaulted a few times in my lifetime, as has another of the founder members. We’ve also always appreciated having a space away from the male gaze and voice, where women can have their voice centre stage for once. I know a number of the current members are also extremely concerned about this new push and would feel pushed out too if any men join.

I have no desire to ‘out’ myself as a ‘TERF’ by complaining or pushing back as it would in their eyes make me a ‘bad’ person and I always try to do good by everyone. I just disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that men should be treated as women because they say so. It seems so seething misogynistic. I’m deeply sad about the whole situation and think I’m going to have to leave the club, because the current chairman seems to stand for things that I don’t. I appreciate women’s rights and they don’t seem to give a fig. What do politics have to do with knitting? Do I just leave? Do I wait and see whether any men try to join before leaving? I can’t be arsed to fight back even though I would have a LOT of (currently silent) supporters.

You could equally argue that a TIM could find a mixed hobby group and has no need, apart from vexatiously inserting themselves into a group where existing members don’t want him.

Wow. So far you have suggested that women who do not want to allow men into a women’s group are:

• racist
• Sexist
• want the men to kill themselves
• Right wing

Any more you want to throw out there?

Is there any circumstance where you think women should be allowed to set boundaries about who they spend time with, or should we just accept that there is nothing we can do without including men?

I used to be a member of a women's only bible study group. It had been running for over 30 years. Then a TW asked to join. The mixed sex group wasn't of interest. The vicar lectured is on being kind. So we let the TW join. The dynamic completely changed. We were spoken over, corrected, almost sneered at. If we related a bible passage to being female the TW would claim it was triggering. One by one most of us left.

Bible study, like knitting, can be done as a mixed sex group. But if the group that exists is women only, then the men/TW/NBs will have to set up their own. Not take over the existing one and then tell the women to make a new one.

Why would you even let a man dominate a knitting group? They are going to be a minority in the group.

Er, I went to a women only weight lifting class last week (private, not council run) and I certainly didn't have to undress in front of anyone, and had I needed to change there's a women's and men's separate changing room. So, no, undressing isn't the reason.

You don't have to fight back just say that you prefer it the way it is and suggest that a new club would be better for those people who want to change it.

You know what I mean. You’re doing things like squats and so on that men will leer at. I’ve never even heard of a man leering at a woman knitting,

The chair is known for their extreme left wing views, whereas no one else talks about politics. They’re a huge virtue signaller so I suspect it’s just this. It’s a group where we talk about issues like work, family and err knitting, so we all just ignore her when she goes into one of her ‘f the tories, f the red tories, etc’ rants.

Lots of WI groups near you that get their kit off, do squats with kids and/or close the gender gap are there? I thought they were generally about women getting together to socialise, try new activities and learn new things.

Have you met many men? It happens, even when there's one of them in a women's space.

Dream on. I haven’t suggested any of that. I can feel the desperation coming off you. It’s a hobby group for knitting, it’s not a women’s group.

Many men just think their views matter more than women’s. Google ‘mansplaining’. It will be a revelation to you. You’re very fortunate not to have come across this already in your life!

Have you met any men?

She makes it clear that she doesn’t see why the group should be persuaded by the chair to accept men who say they are women simply because they say they are women.

What does this mean?

A women's knitting group, like a women's book club, or Boodle's, is perfectly legal.

It comes under the Associations section of the Equality Act. You do not need a legitimate purpose to have an association that is single sex. You can do it just because you want it to be single sex.

Maybe Nulla is in Australia. The use of gender rather than sex and misunderstanding of the law in the UK suggests it might be so.

Is the chair not a she?

It's almost like this: I (early 60s) love socialising with people, hearing their views etc., has turned out not to be true...

That's nonsense.

And it's not what you said.

Most of my classes are mixed, I did two classes today. No men leered at me.

So, no, I don't "know what you mean". If you mean something different to what you posted, maybe try again, saying what you mean this time?

Btw, I think the women's weight lifting class (which was held in the gym, which was mainly full of men) is actually to encourage women into weight lifting, it's nothing to do with undressing or "leering".

I love the fact that there are men who knit. I taught DS1 to knit, at his own request, when he was about 7. But sadly it would appear that someone like your grandad wouldn’t have been allowed into the OP’s group unless he was wearing a dress and eyelash extensions. The leader of her knitting group must believe that trans women are women, as there is no mention of ‘men’ being welcome. I reckon it’s just virtue signalling.

Its a women's knitting group, it says so in the opening post.

That would be reason enough to keep it single sex, the misogynistic little twerp.

Bullshit. I have three brothers. During my career I was often the only woman in the room. I was the first female to reach the c suite in my multinational employer (we are talking hundreds if thousands of employees).

It’s really very disappointing to read the assumption that men just dominate even when they are outnumbered 10 to 1 in any professional or social setting. I have no time or sympathy for any woman that can’t even stand up for herself and be in a fucking knitting group of all things.

You’re acting like women are all doomed to Handmaids Tale status as soon as a commander enters a room.

well the 30somethings have different perspectives on what matters. They have far less interest in having kids these days (which blows my mind) have mainly given up on ever buying anything other than a small flat or house and so seem to be less interested in ‘job, house, family’. It’s interesting from a social perspective. The amount of people 10+ years older than me that fall into the ‘the young have it so easy’ nonsense. It’s important to keep yourself grounded on how the young actually think, even if it’s mainly middle class educated young women.