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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to consider leaving our knitting group over its new policy?

691 replies

Solentseeker · 22/07/2026 22:43

I’m in a women’s knitting group. It started as just a group of friends and extended from there. We meet twice weekly in an hall that has to be booked and paid for and go on trips etc so it has become more formal over time and has a treasurer, secretary, social secretary etc. I and two other friends were founder members but we take a back seat in the organisation now. We attract lots of younger members (30-somethings!) which is great. I (early 60s) love socialising with people, hearing their views etc.

The new chairman (woman) has recently decided that we should announce that we are ‘trans friendly’ and try to attract trans women and non-binary people. Apart from the fact that I don’t know what non-binary people are other than people who don’t sign up to gender stereotypes (most of the women currently in the group don’t go in for nails / make up / fake tan etc anyway so what’s the difference?) I don’t want men in the group, trans identifying or otherwise. I’ve been sexually assaulted a few times in my lifetime, as has another of the founder members. We’ve also always appreciated having a space away from the male gaze and voice, where women can have their voice centre stage for once. I know a number of the current members are also extremely concerned about this new push and would feel pushed out too if any men join.

I have no desire to ‘out’ myself as a ‘TERF’ by complaining or pushing back as it would in their eyes make me a ‘bad’ person and I always try to do good by everyone. I just disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that men should be treated as women because they say so. It seems so seething misogynistic. I’m deeply sad about the whole situation and think I’m going to have to leave the club, because the current chairman seems to stand for things that I don’t. I appreciate women’s rights and they don’t seem to give a fig. What do politics have to do with knitting? Do I just leave? Do I wait and see whether any men try to join before leaving? I can’t be arsed to fight back even though I would have a LOT of (currently silent) supporters.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Slightyamusedandsilly · 23/07/2026 22:26

Solentseeker · 23/07/2026 17:35

Please explain clearly what the difference is? And how we can tell whether it’s a bloke chucking on a dress to leer at women or a genuine trans woman?

I thought you were concerned about your knitting group?

This thread should have been in Feminism: Sex and gender discussions. It's nothing to do with knitting at all.

Slightyamusedandsilly · 23/07/2026 22:29

B1mbam · 23/07/2026 19:28

Such a tedious boring thread. Yet another obsessive wanting to spout anti trans hate who starts a thread on a completely pointless other subject they engineer to bore us all with their views.

👏👏👏👏👏

B1mbam · 23/07/2026 22:32

Solentseeker · 23/07/2026 21:45

You couldn’t care less about women’s rights. Got you. Some of us do, so want to discuss it.

Well bore off to Feminism then, this has nothing to do with knitting.

B1mbam · 23/07/2026 22:34

CarobBean72 · 23/07/2026 21:22

Not true.

We DO see them as women or girls though.

because
they
are

HTH

Oh the old HTH🙄 🥱

Walkaround · 23/07/2026 22:36

SeaAndSangria · 23/07/2026 21:38

you might not see them that way, but you must have missed (or are deliberately ignoring) the usual stance trotted out on here.
You just need to look at any thread about any public trans men on here or threads mentioning trans men at all and discussions about them.
Your opinion isn't the only one, even though you may think so.
HTH

Trans men aren’t vulnerable, frail, lost little women, they’re just women. That’s why they are welcome in women’s groups - because they are women. Trans women are men - they should be welcomed in men’s groups and if they aren’t then any change of behaviour and expectation needs to be forced upon the other men, not on women, as it is men who are at fault. There are also myriad groups where everyone is welcome - that makes plenty of groups open to trans women, meaning they have absolutely no need to force themselves on women-only groups.

MyAmpleSheep · 23/07/2026 22:54

Slightyamusedandsilly · 23/07/2026 22:26

I thought you were concerned about your knitting group?

This thread should have been in Feminism: Sex and gender discussions. It's nothing to do with knitting at all.

Yes; it’s culpably mis-posted here in the knitting section.

CorvusPurpureus · 23/07/2026 23:56

SeaAndSangria · 23/07/2026 20:02

you can be “trans-friendly” to female bodied trans people (trans men or NB female people

I mean, I'd have thought that's not exactly "trans friendly" either. You're literally still being the opposite.
"You're not a man, you're a confused/mentally ill woman. Come join us!"
😕🙄

Some women who identify as transmen will see it as you do, & self exclude because a ‘women’s knitting group’ is just not for them because they don’t identify as women, & that’s ok.

They can set up their own groups, if that’s what they want to do, with their own membership parameters. Within the EQ2010.

Meanwhile, women’s groups remain open to those of the female sex, including welcoming transmen, if they want to join.

DisillusionedIT · 24/07/2026 00:21

B1mbam · 23/07/2026 21:01

You’re talking nonsense.I just asked my husband who has worked in IT for 40 years in a variety of companies and he hasn’t come across
a single trans person ever. Not once .

🤣 sounds like you’re saying ’I disagree with you even though I’ve no experience in that area and I must be right because my Nigel says you’re wrong so there’ 🙄🤣

OwlBeThere · 24/07/2026 01:16

StandingDeskDisco · 23/07/2026 17:03

politics has nothing to do with knitting.
Agreed

Which is why being inclusive has nothing to do with politics.
Non sequitur.
Also, being 'inclusive' has everything to do with modern identity politics

no it doesn’t. butt my point still stands regardless if OP objects but won’t say so, their only choice is suck it up or leave the group.

DeftGoldHedgehog · 24/07/2026 05:20

ItWasnaMeGuv · 23/07/2026 11:51

What is "gender identity"?
What is "trans"?

Look it up.

DeftGoldHedgehog · 24/07/2026 05:23

Slightyamusedandsilly · 23/07/2026 22:26

I thought you were concerned about your knitting group?

This thread should have been in Feminism: Sex and gender discussions. It's nothing to do with knitting at all.

It's not necessarily anything to do with feminism either. Some people hate feminists and transpeople.

BigFatLiar · 24/07/2026 05:54

Does your group have a constitution saying its women only or is it simply that because knitting is predominantly female the current membership is female and no men have joined. Have you had to turn away hordes of men before?

B1mbam · 24/07/2026 06:18

DeftGoldHedgehog · 24/07/2026 05:23

It's not necessarily anything to do with feminism either. Some people hate feminists and transpeople.

Exactly this!

B1mbam · 24/07/2026 06:21

DisillusionedIT · 24/07/2026 00:21

🤣 sounds like you’re saying ’I disagree with you even though I’ve no experience in that area and I must be right because my Nigel says you’re wrong so there’ 🙄🤣

My husband has experience in the area, significant experience. People who hate minority groups can make up any shit they like- as you clearly are.

eurochick · 24/07/2026 07:30

I haven’t read every post so I am not sure if this has been mentioned, but if you don’t want to stick your head above the parapet on the basis of your views, you could do it on the basis of law. If you want to have a single sex group, you cannot let in some men only (transwomen). The new guidance that is coming into force next month might help you explain it to the chair as a concern that they would not be acting legally.

StandingDeskDisco · 24/07/2026 08:54

froglegger · 23/07/2026 18:41

God help any of the children born to these women, its just sickening how easy you are all to hate. You all seem to just shut down any learning to trans people (and therefore possibily anyone else different to them). Because lets be real here, very few of you have come across a real world issue/demonmanrapist you are all so happy to talk about.

very few of you have come across a real world issue/demonmanrapist

You need inform yourself and read up on VAWG and look into the MeToo movement.

Many millions of women have come across real world issues with men, including the transwoman variety. Many thousands (millions?) of women have been raped, and some were even raped by transwomen.

Sereine · 24/07/2026 08:57

StandingDeskDisco · 24/07/2026 08:54

very few of you have come across a real world issue/demonmanrapist

You need inform yourself and read up on VAWG and look into the MeToo movement.

Many millions of women have come across real world issues with men, including the transwoman variety. Many thousands (millions?) of women have been raped, and some were even raped by transwomen.

But how is that relevant to OP's position? No-one seriously contends that trans person is going to come into a knitting group and start raping everyone there.

DisillusionedIT · 24/07/2026 09:03

B1mbam · 24/07/2026 06:21

My husband has experience in the area, significant experience. People who hate minority groups can make up any shit they like- as you clearly are.

Edited

I’m not making up anything. This was across several high tech companies. But you haven’t worked in the industry and the non trans identified men in tech are often a bit oblivious to the impact.

It’s so male dominated the numbers of trans identified men are a small proportion as far as men are concerned.

It’s so male dominated the numbers are significant as far as the women in tech are concerned.

It means women working in that environment have a long experience of interacting with trans identified men.

Here’s an article from the trans in tech perspective https://www.siliconrepublic.com/people/trans-people-tech-gaming

Go read The Soul of a New Machine by Tracy Kidder, it was almost a footnote at the time (pub 1981) but one of the developers is trans.

I wonder what IT environment your dh works in, my experience is in very techie environments, if he hasn’t encountered any I suspect his isn’t.

But feel free to continue to accuse women who have experience you dislike because it doesn’t fit your ideological viewpoint of lying it doesn’t change the facts.

Karla O’Brien on being trans in tech: Why are we here, and where are we?

Karla O’Brien wondered why she found so many trans people in tech – is it because of their experience exploring identity in an online world?

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/people/trans-people-tech-gaming

StandingDeskDisco · 24/07/2026 09:41

emmas123 · 23/07/2026 16:22

Cool, glad you're interested in learning more and correcting some misconceptions. I'm not avoiding the question, and it's not uncomfortable for me. But it is ridiculous arguing with someone that thinks their husband one day deciding to wear a dress is trans. I mean even trans people in the drag queen community are in the minority - so that just highlights how ridiculous a comparision the 'throwing on a dress statement'

You can start here if you wish: https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people

Literally just start googling reputable resources, because I can't be spoon-feeding.

Here is the relevant part of the text from the link, with my comments:

What does it mean to be transgender?
Transgender people are people whose gender identity is different from the gender they were thought to be at birth. “Trans” is often used as shorthand for transgender.
Babies are not 'thought to be' a gender at birth. They have a sex. It is confusing and misleading to conflate sex and gender

When we're born, a doctor usually says that we're male or female based on what our bodies look like.
Agreed, unless it is unclear and further tests are needed.

Most people who were labeled male at birth turn out to actually identify as men, and most people who were labeled female at birth grow up to be women.
Note the sleight of hand: males 'identify as' men, but females 'grow up to be' women. Identifying is a totally different thing to being. Male babies grow up to be men and female babies grow up to be women, regardless of how they may 'identify' when adult.

But some people's gender identity – their innate knowledge of who they are – is different from what was initially expected when they were born.
The 'innate knowledge of who they are' is a delusion if you are talking about sex. You are either of the male sex or of the female sex. You cannot have 'knowledge' that is just plain wrong, because that is not knowledge.
I guess you can have 'innate knowledge' of your gender, to the same extent and in a similar way that you can have 'innate knowledge' of your immortal soul.

A transgender woman lives as a woman today, but was thought to be male when she was born. A transgender man lives as a man today, but was thought to be female when he was born.
The words 'lives as' are never fully explained. How does a male person 'live as' a woman if they are a man? He can change his documents and his name. He can dress in a stereotypically feminine manner. He can adopt 'feminine' mannerism and interests. He can sneak into the female toilets. He can ask everyone around him to use female pronouns about him.
None of this is 'living as a woman'. It is pretending to be a woman.

Some transgender people identify as neither male nor female, or as a combination of male and female. There are a variety of terms that people who aren't entirely male or entirely female use to describe their gender identity, like non-binary or genderqueer.
We a dimorphic species. Everyone is either male or female.

(Note: NCTE uses both the adjectives “male” and “female” and the nouns “man” and “woman” to refer to a person’s gender identity.)
Well that is a recipe for confusion and obfuscation! If you cannot talk about sex and gender as two different things, how can you explain anything clearly.

Everyone—transgender or not—has a gender identity.
No. There is no evidence to support this assertion. Many people claim they do NOT have any gender identity. If you want to assert this, you have to first of all precisely define and explain what a gender identity actually is, then go about proving that everyone has one.

How does someone know that they are transgender?
People can realize that they're transgender at any age. Some people can trace their awareness back to their earlier memories – they just knew.
Memory is a fascinating and slippery thing. It is very clear that people can be mistaken about facts and events they remember from their childhood, let alone how they felt about themselves.

Others may need more time to realize that they are transgender.
Some people may spend years feeling like they don't fit in without really understanding why,
Typical of undiagnosed autism.

or may try to avoid thinking or talking about their gender out of fear, shame, or confusion. Trying to repress or change one’s gender identity doesn’t work; in fact, it can be very painful and damaging to one’s emotional and mental health. As transgender people become more visible in the media and in community life across the country, more transgender people are able to name and understand their own experiences and may feel safer and more comfortable sharing it with others.
For many transgender people, recognizing who they are and deciding to start gender transition can take a lot of reflection. Transgender people risk social stigma, discrimination, and harassment when they tell other people who they really are.
Nobody should be subject to discrimination and harassment. There are laws against it. Gender Reassignment is a protected characteristic.

Parents, friends, coworkers, classmates, and neighbors may be accepting—but they also might not be, and many transgender people fear that they will not be accepted by their loved ones and others in their life. Despite those risks, being open about one’s gender identity, and living a life that feels truly authentic, can be a life-affirming and even life-saving decision.
That last bit, hinting at suicide, is totally irresponsible emotional blackmail. It implies that if you don't let a transperson 'live a life that feels truly authentic', they may end their own life.

StandingDeskDisco · 24/07/2026 09:46

Sereine · 24/07/2026 08:57

But how is that relevant to OP's position? No-one seriously contends that trans person is going to come into a knitting group and start raping everyone there.

It is not relevant. I was just responding to your post.

BabblingBiddy · 24/07/2026 10:36

DeftGoldHedgehog · 24/07/2026 05:20

Look it up.

Ive looked it up. Every website says its "an internal sense of your own gender"
Which I dont have. Im a woman because i was born female. Nothing more. Nothing less. I don't have an "internal sense" of being a woman anymore than I have an internal sense of being fat, short, brown eyed, ot any of the other things I can prove are true. (Not that im going to do so on here)

Lovelyview · 24/07/2026 15:03

emmas123 · 23/07/2026 14:52

Are people threatening to leave the group because of allowing disabled people to join, though (like OP)?

Honestly, how different is it from being 'concerned' that installing an accessibility ramp is going to change the group into a disability activist group? Whichever way you look at it - it's an incredible reach before they've even invited someone in.

No. Women are a sex class and are allowed to have women -only organisations. You can say 'transwomen' are welcome - but you should also welcome all men into the group. Because 'transwomen' are men. Not women.

DeftGoldHedgehog · 24/07/2026 15:24

BabblingBiddy · 24/07/2026 10:36

Ive looked it up. Every website says its "an internal sense of your own gender"
Which I dont have. Im a woman because i was born female. Nothing more. Nothing less. I don't have an "internal sense" of being a woman anymore than I have an internal sense of being fat, short, brown eyed, ot any of the other things I can prove are true. (Not that im going to do so on here)

Try here www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/7

StandingDeskDisco · 24/07/2026 15:32

DeftGoldHedgehog · 24/07/2026 15:24

That link answers the question of what is legally meant by the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.

It doesn't answer the question 'what is gender identity?'

Nor does it answer the question 'what is "trans"?'

It says:
A reference to a transsexual person is a reference to a person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

But not everyone who claims to be 'trans' meets the definition of gender reassignment in legal terms.

BabblingBiddy · 24/07/2026 16:03

DeftGoldHedgehog · 24/07/2026 15:24

That's about gender reassignment. Not identity.