Rude Dd answering back

[Constantheadachesgoaway]

Please does anyone have any advice

Dd is 8, very bright, funny, kind, but can change sometimes when frustrated/angry and shouts loudly, answers back and can say horrible things like calling us idiots etc. I get so cross back at her, but it makes things worse. When she’s calmed she often apologies and at that point i’m able to talk to her about how she can’t talk to us like that and so on. She listens, but then it happens again. She’s no trouble at school, hard working, lots of friends, doing really well with all her work, never in trouble.
Is this normal? What do I do?
I would have never dreamed of speaking to my parents or answering back the way she does
Feel like i’m failing as a parent

what if instead of engaging you give her the slient treatment ?

This is exactly what we need to do with DS14. He's Audhd & still has big emotions. As little language as possible, leave him to it to calm, & 99% of the time he calms quite quickly. He always sincerely apologises. Zero demands/ questions, same after school.

The only time we've had real issues has been when someone is trying to reason/ ask/ demand. It's been a long, hard road (he has PDA traits), but we do think we've cracked it now & he's more aware of his emotions/reactions.

I know he has ASN, op, but the theory is the same. I don't think this is avoiding behaviour/ consequences, it's managing the behaviour effectively. We tried every method going- including removing privileges/ sending to room/ being very strict & it worked against us.

We have 2 older DC & we approached their behaviour much more traditionally, & it worked for them, but as you know they're all different.

I'm presently leaving him to it as he's in a mood about a Fortnite issue; he'll come out of his funk later. I'm in the garden in the sun, so all good.

Good luck.

Mine does this a bit (5 y/o). I'm happy with my approach with consequences, etc. However, I do notice it's more when she's tired, hungry etc. I managed to catch her in advance of one of her outbursts the other day and say something like "it's times like this that you sometimes are tired and cross and then shout at mummy and it's not good for either of us. Let's just focus on getting you home so you can have some time to play" etc. etc. anyway, it definitely helped! So I am in agreement with everyone who says it's unacceptable for her to talk to you like that etc and dealing with it with all the useful advice above, but keeping an eye on preventing them as well probs also worth some effort!

No wonder there are so many abusive adults around when you see the level of abuse it is apparently acceptable to use with a child:

• drag her by her arm - if this was an adult, that is assault.
• silent treatment for days - again, as multiple posts on abusive relationships show, that isn't acceptable to do to an adult.
• make sure she's scared of you so she doesn't dare express emotions.

This isn't parenting, this is revenge and it is abusive - and before someone comes along and says that's offensive to kids who were abused - I was abused by my parents and yes that included being hit, but also dragged around physically, ignored and terrified - they were every bit as bad as being hit, worse tbh as they happened much more frequently.

This is a small child struggling to regulate and deal with strong and sudden emotions - you learn how to do that by having parents who model sensible behaviour and who communicate.

All you learn from abusive, vengeful parents is avoidance, which is not at all the same thing.

I agree with this. Ignore her. Let her scream. She'll tire out eventually. Then take away a privilege. Toys, telly, friend over. Make her clean the toilet. The most important thing imo is to be consistent. You are the adult. She should not be able to control you.

Yes some bizarre and unsettling posts on this thread.

I find some of the punishments advised on these sort of threads very creepy. Almost like some posters enjoy punishing children.

And in this instance mean the same thing..

the problem is most methods are ineffective, because generally they are not likely to realise they were naughty instead they will likely hate you more because you do x as punishment

the only one id advocate is silent treatment, because otherwise how else are you ment to make it clear they were wrong, eg oh dear dasiy dont do that, etc

So she gets frustrated and expresses that with shouting and answering back.

So you get frustrated and express that by being angry and shouting at her and answering back.

Wow I wonder where she is learning to process and express her emotions like that from. Could it be the example you are setting? Maybe you could learn another way of dealing with anger and frustration and model that to her to influence how she expresses her emotions.

How is physically dragging your child acceptable??? Some parents on this thread are nuts. Just because you don’t use a belt, it doesn’t mean your methods are not abusive. If a grown woman was dragged by her partner to another room, how would you feel about it?

My mom who’s almost 70 years old still remembers and does tell me from to time how her mother gave her the silent treatment for days when she was little (my grandma was an orphan herself, so she didn’t really have a mother figure). All it taught my mom was to not do this to her own children. She’s never been close with her own mother.

My sister got her period at 8. It’s not considered out of the norm.

She’s an 8 year old who needs support to learn strategies that help her to control anger and frustration. It’s just a skill she hasn’t mastered yet. You wouldn’t get angry with someone who couldn’t ride a bike or tell the time.

What happens in the lead up to these outbursts? Use her warning signals to offer outlets. Help her name her feelings. Model impulse control and healthy coping mechanisms. Eg. ‘I can tell we’re both getting frustrated by this conversation, I’m going to stomp around the garden for a bit. We can try to find a compromise when we both feel calmer’.

Watch super nanny!

Terrible advice !

Indeed.
Especially cleaning the toilet.
Almost treating the DD like a prison inmate.

There's a lot of parents on here who appear to have easy children but think it's their superior parenting.

I have one of each children (an 'easy' child and an SEN child). The rules that work for easy kids (no TV for a week or so, removal of treats) don't even touch the sides with SEN child

And yes, connection before correction. Once a child is overwhelmed and feels bad about what they've done then it's hard to improve things. This was one of the very few useful things I got from a parenting course for violent children.

It’s rhe same on them all. There is always posters cropping up salivating over punishing kids. Someone’s even said she has to be scared of her mother, to threaten to medicate her, some one else wants her dragged.

there are some really warped child abusers haunt this forum,

I'm sorry what? The silent treatment? Are you kidding? That's a standard acknowledged emotional abusive tactic.

Unless what you're meaning is saying something like "We're both really angry right now, let's pause this and get some space and come back to talk about it when we're more calm" and then stop engaging in the argument, while also continuing to exist like a basically good human being and mother - not dening your child's existence, not trying to manipulate them, not using their love for you as a weapon...

Definitely puberty related.

What's triggering her OP? I also think consequences don't work unless you've given her some skills to manage big emotions. Whether she has some underlying challenges or it's just hormonal or a personality thing, she needs to be able to feel these feelings and manage without screaming or abusing people.
Try looking up anger management for kids - there are loads of good books to name feelings and support them, candle breathing, hand breathing, sensory tools, mindfulness.
The key will be for her to gain the skills to;
Recognise something triggers her, herself
Then name what she is feeling
Then calmly explain she needs space
Then apply the tools that help her calm herself down

You can use rewards and consequences to support that process. Agree what is an isn't acceptable in your house (e.g. I don't mind a door slam but I do mind being called names, I don't mind someone running to their room to call off, I do mind screaming and shouting) write this down with her too. Reward her as she puts these things into practice.

Hormones begin to kick in at 8. Also, lots of adults struggle with big emotions (hello all the Argentinian footballers not coping with sadness at losing) so it's hard, and also very important to learn skills to manage it. Start good life habits and strong boundaries now!

If a parent's only approach to misbehaviour is heaping punishment upon punishment, then you may achieve the short-term goal of compliance. But what else is being achieved? What messages are you sending that the child will internalise?

The OP's child is expressing anger and frustration, usually about not being able to do something. The OP gave the example of struggling with her shoes. If the response is simply to shut down communication and impose severe punishments, then how does that help this little girl develop strategies to regulate her emotions? Again, the power differential is such that you could probably stop the behaviour. But I don't think that should be the end goal.

Of course speaking respectfully to others should be expected, and rudeness should be addressed. But I'd want to dig deeper. What is the source of her frustration? If she is upset because she can't do something properly, what is going on there? Why is she struggling with shoes at the age of 8? Is it part of a larger picture of issues with motor skills and coordination? I asked these questions in another post, though the OP may not have seen it. In any case, working through the emotional side of things can only help.

On another note, several PPs mentioned removing the child's phone as punishment. No 8-year-old should have a phone IMO. And screen time should be limited by the parents if the child isn't able to self-regulate. Not as a punishment, but simply for the health and well-being of the child.

its more in the sense of if engaging makes her worse then in theory going slient and walking away in theory may cool the situation faster than arguing, apologies i didnt expand my point

What does not allowing it look like?

Genuinely curious for insight as me and another mum were discussing this the other day- like what is the best thing to actually do to stop the behaviour?