Rude Dd answering back

[Constantheadachesgoaway]

Please does anyone have any advice

Dd is 8, very bright, funny, kind, but can change sometimes when frustrated/angry and shouts loudly, answers back and can say horrible things like calling us idiots etc. I get so cross back at her, but it makes things worse. When she’s calmed she often apologies and at that point i’m able to talk to her about how she can’t talk to us like that and so on. She listens, but then it happens again. She’s no trouble at school, hard working, lots of friends, doing really well with all her work, never in trouble.
Is this normal? What do I do?
I would have never dreamed of speaking to my parents or answering back the way she does
Feel like i’m failing as a parent

You cannot be serious?

Try social stories with her. Eg. Tell her the story of a child who lost their temper in a certain situation. Talk about the story. What should she have done, what should the parents have done. What was everyone feeling at the time. Agree on the right way it should have been handled then follow through with whatever she agrees is fair. If you're telling the story of another child, she'll be better able to analyse it and reflect as it's a step removed from her.

She has to be scared of you - so scare her.

I really, really hope you don't have children.

Don't engage in discussion when she is like that.

Send her to her room - don't raise your voice either, just in a normal volume, and pick a phrase and do not deviate from it.

'Go to your room, we can talk when you can be calm and polite'.

Stand firm (physically) direct eye contact. Wait. Only repeat that one phrase and ONLY if you have to.

If you raise your voice or try to discuss or try to teach her anything in the moment, it will not work, her brain is not in 'learning' mode at this point.

When she IS calm, suggest you help her come up with ways to avoid such outbursts - counting to ten before you speak - taking yourself off to your room to calm down.

You can then point out that it's unacceptable to speak to people like that and whilst you will give calm consequences and then talk to her afterwards, other people will not - friends, teachers, friends parents etc.

My DD is 8 next month and suddenly she is the exact same. Reading your post I could have written it myself. She is generally lovely but will flip and say horrible things. The other day she said to me ‘you should have learned to be a better mother’ cheeky little….!! I have two friends with girls the same age and they are the exact same at the moment. I wonder if it can be an age/hormone thing?!

I instantly react, so for example when she said that we were traveling and she was watching her IPad so I immediately took that off her. If she’s shouting and going on I will put her in her room and tell her I will be back once she’s calmed down, this didn’t used to work and she used to just come out but I think with age she understands bit more. She also called me something the other week (can’t remember what) and I took her new squishy away.

you are trying and kids are hard - don’t let the perfect parents of the perfect children on MN tell you any different .

Could be hormones yes she is young but worth looking into etc

Don’t shout back.

in the moment either ignore or say (on repeat) I don’t listen to people who can’t talk calmly.

away from that work on strategies for dealing with anger/expressing upset in a more civil fashion.

if there are regular flashpoints - going to swimming, after school etc - look at what is going on then.

One of the things that I think helps is asking 'what is she getting out of the rudeness?'

If you're capitulating and giving her something she wants, then that will encourage it. But it sounds like it's simply an outlet for frustration (please see the thread on the bedtime prank for plenty of people justifying this behaviour in an adult 🙄!) then the trick is to help her train her brain to find other ways to seek that release that don't involve being unkind to others.

If it's frustration, then you need to work on building up her tolerance for minor annoyances by teaching her how to recognise the feelings bubbling up, identifying situations where she might get annoyed, having a plan for times when she's likely to get wound up, and having a code word or signal that you can both use to let each other know things are getting out of hand.

As a child who was like this, and having had a child that was like this, meeting that frustration with your own anger will just amplify it - the rudeness is a symptom of her inability to deal with her feelings, so adding your feelings to the mix won't help. My parents punished me for it, and I didn't learn how to effectively manage my anger until I was an adult (my teen years were an unholy and mentally unhealthy nightmare as a result).

I tried the above approach with my explosive child and he is now really good at self regulation (better than me 😬) and will take himself off for some quiet time when annoyed and either reappear after a reset, or come and apologise if he's overreacted or snapped.

We also watched the Betty White Snickers ads ('You aren't you when you're hungry') to show that adults don't always recognise when they are being twats, so it's not unusual or bad to need a reminder to review your emotions and see if you might need a snack, some time out, a hug, or something else to help regulate your emotions.

Jesus. I'd have had a crack across my backside for speaking to my parents like that and honestly, my kids would get the same. Fuck being spoken to like dirt, in my own house, by my own kids. They'd only bloody do it once.

The thing I wonder about sending her to her room is would she wreck the place? Obviously there would be further consequences for thus but it would still be a lot of hassle to sort out!

Very helpful I'm sure

This is what I do with my daughter who has just turned 8.

She needs space. I need space. Then she needs to be made to think about actions having consequences and to be taught empathy.

I'm wondering if this is the problem point - she sorry so you move on - and she young so she doesn't understand so you let it go.

That fine first time one off time - maybe - but beyond that she learnt she cries and says sorry and then it can be done again and more than happens more entrenched that becomes.

Mostly with my DC I could make a sound or go very quiet and they would rapidly re-think - even as teen they slamp doors and have to calm down - but afterwards the conversation with me is calm but firm that was unacceptable.

I'd get her to her room let her calm down - then come back and calmly and firmly tell her you are extremely dispointed in her behavior and mean it - that she keeps doing this and it's unaccpetable - she'll likely try tears to get around you - be firm and cold for a bit and let her stew. When she come later to you to say sorry let her but remind her it can not happen again.

Next time try warning sound or phrase and if she ploughs on - do above again with consquences like losing something (though some kids just don't care about that) and remind her you've both been her before - and it's got to stop.

I'd also work on minismising any obvious flash points - and work on praising any good behavior that you can but tolerting this behavior will entrench it - so make it very clear with quite firm calm it's not happening going forward.

Like pps have suggested I'd be monitoring what happens before she gets angry. You may then start to pre-empt meltdowns and guide her before she becomes dysregulated.

I'd organise a corner in her bedroom or in the lounge with calming, sensory toys. You could make some together like a sensory jar, with oil, water and food colouring and something like a worry box or worry doll. Show her how to use them and explain how they may be able to help her - obviously do this when she is calm. Then when she starts shouting calmly guide her to this space and leave her. I would probably suggest saying very little to her and definitely don't react at all. Leave her to shout or whatever and then when she has calmed down go back and talk to her. Lots of praise for her if she uses her calming toys or if she is able to regulate again quickly and sanctions is things get out of hand like shouting at you directly or rudeness.

How long did you try no tv or any screens for?

Oh calm down. When I was young we ‘feared’ being told off by teachers or adults. It’s a way of children needing to respect parental/adult authority in certain situations. Which they should.

It is so hard. Please do not get angry - this just fuels the fire and you have two angry people shouting at each other! - not ideal.

Send her to her room every time she does it - if she refuses to go and you do not want to manhandle her then just walk away and ignore her, making it clear that the punishment of going to her room still stands. Put it into practice asap.

What is needed is that you and your partner do not rise to the bait but simply and consistently do the same thing every time - no variation, no shouting.

Why would you not have dared to speak to your parents like that? - what was it in their parenting that made you so aware that this was simply off the cards?

Because you didn't parent then and didn't define clear boundaries? These things aren't sudden - they are built up over long periods of time where a child feels they are 'allowed' to act like this. Coming down on them like a ton of bricks won't do anything now....

When she starts very calmly and sternly say something like 'your behaviour right now is completely unacceptable and I will not listen to you be disrespectful. '. Then leave her to it and have her calm down.

Then when she is calm be VERY clear about what is expected, what is acceptable and what will happen if she does it again.

Do no deviate from this and repeat until she understands. Escalate the consequences accordingly if this continues.

You have years and years of 'correcting' to do. So this won't be an overnight fix.

OP you're not failing as a parent and this isn't uncommon. That she's apologising afterwards would suggest that she knows he behaviour isn't how she should be presenting but she may be struggling with how she manages her anger.

I don't have any quick fix suggestions, and I don't see how taking away TV privileges nurtures a genuine calmer temperament. It depends on whether your goal is just to assert your authority or to actually correct the behaviour.

What happens in the lead up to when she's answering back at you? Any topics or situations that you think could be triggering her behaviour? Have you asked her why she's responding back in this manner? Have you taught her how she can respond instead? Simply telling her what not to do without any guidance on alternatives can lead to them going back to what's familiar.

Modelling is also important. Many of us have been there when we match their anger and tone because we get triggered ourselves. What I try and do is show that I won't tolerate that disrespect by telling them I am moving away from their temper and things will not go back to normal until there has been repair. Where there's a decent relationship between parent and child, this can be effective.

I'm going against the grain. Never mind about consequences for her outburst. If the outburst was caused by you saying no to something, obviously don't change your original answer, but don't give separate consequences for her shouting/rudeness when she's cross. Taking away a future treat/privilege because she can't manage her emotions is too far removed in time and logical sense.

What she needs is help to understand and manage her emotions. This is a skill she hasn't got yet. You need to help her learn, not punish her for her current lack. This isn't something to do when she's angry, it's something to talk about all the rest of the time. You have to model emotional intelligence. You have to point out when people on TV, in books, in real life (like her friends) handle things well, or when they react poorly and then think together about what they could have done instead. You need to give her the words to be able to talk about how she feels. And make it normal and safe in your family to be able to say "I'm angry with you because..." without all hell breaking loose. She is allowed to be angry. You are allowed to continue to hold your line in the sand while acknowledging her anger. Together, you need to find strategies that help her, like going outside, splashing cold water on her face, breathing, listening to loud music, jumping etc

I get so cross back at her, but it makes things worse.

Matching her anger will make it worse. You get into a cycle of you feeding her anger and her feeding yours. One of you needs to remain calm, and you're the adult, so you need to work on your own emotional control and emotional intelligence first.

In the moment of her being angry. You need to not react out of your own anger. You need to maintain control. Did you have a strict school teacher when you were a kid? Channel that engery. Stern voice, clipped tone, short sentences. Tell her what to do, not what not to do. "Stop." "Take a breath before you say anything else." "Go outside and shout if you need to" etc. When she's calm talk to her about her feelings. It's ok to be angry, it's not ok to shout at people. Etc.

I would have never dreamed of speaking to my parents or answering back the way she does
Feel like i’m failing as a parent
This is why you are getting angry yourself and why you can't remain in control when she's angry. Her outbursts are pushing your "I'm a shit mum" button. You're not failing. You are parenting in a different generation to your parents. You can't reproduce what they did and get the same results even if you wanted to. There are different social expectations for how kids are treated now. We've all as a society gone to far to the "don't upset the little dears/let's be their friend" end of the parenting spectrum. Your kid has that as the backdrop to their behaviour. The way we were parented was equally bad. Societal norms 40 years ago were more on the emotional neglect and control of behaviour though fear end of the spectrum. You need to find something in the middle.

🙄

When did you notice a change? Anything you can identify? Doing well in school and having lots of friends doesn't mean children can't have any other underlying issues that they may not want to discuss or even recognise they have.

This. You keep calm. Stop interacting the moment she loses it. Just let her know that there will now be 30 mins of no wifi or that there will now be no tennis or whatever. Just calmly let her know the consequence and then calmly carry out the consequence.

DD1 is a bit like that (not so much now at 21 but still has her moments- mostly she gets frustrated with herself rather than us).

I'd say it's easier to manage than DD2 being easy going but keeping things in.

Set boundaries, particularly as to what language is acceptable, but pick your battles as actually being angry is fine, it's how you express it that counts.

Also have a talk with her about it when she is calmer, particularly about anything which is upsetting or frustrating her. I wouldn't go in for enduring or belated punishments personally, just speak to her sharply if she crosses the line.

I always think as well that DDs should be encouraged to shout up, be rude and make a noise in the right context. We sometimes teach them to be too polite and quiet.

Bingo!!! This op, so this 🖕👆