Rude Dd answering back

[Constantheadachesgoaway]

Please does anyone have any advice

Dd is 8, very bright, funny, kind, but can change sometimes when frustrated/angry and shouts loudly, answers back and can say horrible things like calling us idiots etc. I get so cross back at her, but it makes things worse. When she’s calmed she often apologies and at that point i’m able to talk to her about how she can’t talk to us like that and so on. She listens, but then it happens again. She’s no trouble at school, hard working, lots of friends, doing really well with all her work, never in trouble.
Is this normal? What do I do?
I would have never dreamed of speaking to my parents or answering back the way she does
Feel like i’m failing as a parent

THIS is the advice!

Some kids push back! Not all kids are perfect , some have more attitude than others! Aslong as you pull her up on it each time and model the ideal behaviour that’s what you want. Not letting it slide. And consequences for times where it goes beyond normal chat back. You don’t want completely docile children! Children who ask questions are good, and who test/use their own wits, but rudeness can’t be allowed.

I feel like you didn't read the whole post @Eyesopenwideawake was replying to. It was a bit unhinged tbh.

@Constantheadachesgoaway at 8 years old, she’s still young enough to put facing the wall for 8 minutes. So time-out.

She screams like a baby, punish like a baby. She’ll soon stop. Stick to it though, she has to do her full 8 minutes to reflect on her behaviour and apologise at the end. Leave it as that though, no lecture, move on. You’ll soon realise that she hasn’t been put facing the wall for along time - a great sign her behaviour has improved.

It’s one minute for every year.

Both mine had this consequence and I’m pleased to say it worked very well.

My parents I'm sure would have said I was a well-behaved child overall, but I can certainly remember being cheeky, answering back, shouting, and being told off at this age. And much older. I was scared to do that at school but home was a safe space.

When my son does this I just walk away. He doesn’t like that. He’s a ND teen so making him go to his room isn’t possible so this is the best thing.

I would have never dreamed of speaking to my parents or answering back the way she does

Right, and why was that? What did your parents do?

Do that.

Looking back to my own childhood; my DM (and she was truly "D"!) had a bit of a low boiling point, as you might say, and I came to regard it as something like stormy weather, wait long enough and it will blow over. My DF, on the other hand, was kind and placid, and when I overstepped the mark, he would reprimand me quietly and gravely, not letting the matter drop. I was really bothered when I knew he was displeased. But they both enforced sanctions.
I freely admit to never having been in the trenches with my own offspring, but when teaching I found that steely displeasure brought better results than rising to the bait - and some of the things hurled at me in the heat of the moment were truly provocative!
I reminded myself that this was a sign that they had lost their self-control, but I still had mine. The crucial moments were when tempers had cooled, talking about the best way to move on.

If she's ignoring it, and carrying on, then I think I'd give her a consequence that can be cumulative. It could be an earlier bed time, a day with no TV, a day with no computer, whatever.

I did an earlier bed time.

And I would just quietly either write up, or state (or both) how it was adding up. So, you're screaming at me, and calling me an idiot? Half an hour off bedtime. Still doing it? An hour off bed time. Still doing it? An hour and a half off bed time.

I do remember I had a couple of days where my particularly stubborn miss came home from school, had a snack, and went to bed - was allowed up for bath and dinner, and back to bed!

The really important thing is once you've declared this, you cannot go back on it.

Yep, this is it. It's mostly stormy weather with DD1 too. I'm not perfect either at 50 years old but I'm better at managing emotions before I get to boiling point these days.

I could have written this about my 9 year old and she is definitely showing signs of early puberty.

I started making note/ loosely tracking and it seems to be worst one week in a month which would indicate puberty/start of cycle.

She always calms down and apologises but in the moment there is no reasoning. She goes up to her room and I leave her be or times I've had to remove myself from the room to take 5 minutes. I speak to her openly about puberty and cycles but there are consequences for the behaviour. For example no playing out with friends, no tv or things taken away. I limit screen time as well as that definitely began playing a part in bad behaviour as well.

Last month after kicking off when she had calmed down I just asked her if she was having a tough week and she burst into tears and was talking about how she was feeling and that her emotions felt 'all over the place'

We are a house of 3 girls and talking openly about how we are feeling and our emotions is a big thing for us. Even for me sometimes I will say I am feeling overwhelmed (for whatever reason) just let me sort this out and I will be with you.

Yes I was wondering if anyone would respond in this fashion, put far better than I would have been able to.

anyway, all of the above and Laura markham - she’s a psychologist. I’d recommend her website and newsletter for great general parenting advice.

www.peacefulparenthappykids.com/read/what-to-do-when-your-kid-talks-back

I agree with pp don’t get angry back.

But I’d also try limiting screens much more, drop them during the week entirely and see if it helps. Not as a punishment but a way to give her breathing space from it.

Try reading two books: Ross Greene’s The Explosive Child and the book “How to talk so children will listen and how to listen so children will talk.”

Also start working with her to identify and name the feeling that comes over her as she starts to lose control. Ask her when she is calm to observe herself snd her body. Is it a red mist, a boiling feeling in her chest? If she can begin to notice the prodrome she can begin to take steps to control it such as learning to hold up her hand, stop, signal she is in trouble, and retreat to her room.

She's literally asking help to do that effectively

You need your Mummy is serious voice to say loudly, 'do not speak to me like that', you don't get cross you get serious, hopefully that stops it before you have to get to punishment. I was very easy going normally, but if I used my serious voice they knew it was bad.

Consequences, I would put her in a time out. I used sit mine at the bottom of the stairs as it's boring. Then after five minutes ask if they were ready to behave etc. I would put them in a time out in a supermarket or park etc if needed. Stand/sit there, no talking. They grow out of it. Good luck.

This sounds like an impulse/ emotional regulation issue
First off check sleep/ eating/ any worries
Stay calm, icy calm
Warn her and allow her to stop and apologise
If it carries on tv etc off and in her room
Loss of priviledge such as a social event shes really looking forward too
Mine was once grounded for a month -worked a treat!
Does anyone in the family shout etc ?
What precedes the anger?

Stay calm yourself, to model good behaviour

Talk quietly. This can be surprisingly effective

Focus on what you want her to do, not what you don't eg "indoor voices please" is better than "stop shouting"

Actions and consequences eg "i think you're cranky because you're tired so we'll go straight home instead of via the park" is better than random punishment eg "no TV until Tuesday "

Praise the good behaviour when it happens

We had similar with our daughter and enrolled on a Triple P parenting course. It was really eye opening. Have a look at the literature on it. It's about clearly setting out expectations, explaining consequences of not doing as asked (removal from activity, time out etc) and how to deal with it if they're still not doing as asked like planned ignoring etc. It honestly did help us. Our little girl is not perfect but is a lot better.

We had this with our daughter at the same age. She immediately had any devices she was using taken off her and was sent to her room.
Eventually after she’d had enough time to calm down I or her Dad would go and sit calmly with her and talk through what happened. Quite often she would burst into tears and explain what was really going on (upset about something she’d watched/nasty kids at school etc) and the shouting was just a symptom and way to express how she was feeling, which we could then help her with.
By age 11 it had pretty much entirely stopped.
There must always be a consequence though - if you take no action she will never change or likely become worse.
I honestly believe my daughter appreciated the boundaries and that we would work things out with her afterwards.

She sounds like a usually lovely, hard working and high achieving little girl. She holds in all of her anger and frustration at school. Home is her safe space to let it all out. Of course name calling is unacceptable, however, she needs somewhere she does not always have to be perfect. I would have a word about being nasty but allow her to express her feelings.

Apart from anything else, you can't hand out harsh punishments for raising her voice or not always being sweetness and light unless you are prepared to hold yourself to the same standards. I know I have moments when I am not as patient or kind as I would wish to be. I don't expect my children to be any different.

Disagree with all.saying this is lack of parenting, etc. She is frustrated. You need to not over react. Give her strategies to cope with her anger when she is calm. When she flares up.remind her what you discussed and that shes not allowed to speak like that to you. This is something she needs to learn with time.

Agree and this ties in with my comment above.
With our daughter she wasn’t being punished for having emotions as such, it’s more that we were removing her from the environment to her own safe space. She knew that we weren’t willing to tolerate her behaving like that around us and if she wanted to be angry she could do so in her room.
Hence when we calmly talked to her afterwards the reason beneath it all would come out.

I find escalating punishments help with this first time no screen time for a day, second time 2 days etc she will soon stop! Or if it’s not screen time she loves maybe it’s going to the park or something whatever is the thing she loves!