Rude Dd answering back

[Constantheadachesgoaway]

Please does anyone have any advice

Dd is 8, very bright, funny, kind, but can change sometimes when frustrated/angry and shouts loudly, answers back and can say horrible things like calling us idiots etc. I get so cross back at her, but it makes things worse. When she’s calmed she often apologies and at that point i’m able to talk to her about how she can’t talk to us like that and so on. She listens, but then it happens again. She’s no trouble at school, hard working, lots of friends, doing really well with all her work, never in trouble.
Is this normal? What do I do?
I would have never dreamed of speaking to my parents or answering back the way she does
Feel like i’m failing as a parent

Wow, so many perfect parents on here.
One of my kids is similar temperament to what you describe here. Its not 'parents not parenting' 🙄as my other 3 are different in personality.
What works for the backchatty one is, as others have said here, consistency, remaining calm and not rising to the bait to get into an argument, and remember to also praise the good behavior.

This isn’t great.

For one thing, my 8yo is very strong and I physically can't drag them upstairs. For another, what am I teaching them then except that the bigger and stronger person gets their way using physical force? Given their size, particularly not a lesson I want them to learn!

And how often would you expect to do this? The problem with the "just use consequences" is that the examples people give always seem to remember when they did it once, or twice, and the child then "knew" and never did it again. For example, I have removed mine from countless activities/spaces where their behaviour wasn't appropriate, and yet it continues.

When she calms and you discuss with your daughter the rudeness/calling you names as being unhelpful and a poor argument i suggest you decide on a code work eg: abracadabra as a reminder of the discussion.
It seems she understands its rude but cant stop herself doing it. The reminder word may help.
EG: DD you are an idiot.
Mum abracadabra!
DD sorry mum.
It worked better for my DD than punitive measures.

I devised a parenting method for myself that parenting was all about 3 Bs: bribery, blackmail and bargaining!

A lot of the responses here talk about consequences for bad behaviour, but have you thought about looking at it from the opposite angle and rewarding good behaviour instead?

I’m getting on a bit now but when I was at your stage sticker charts were all the rage. I’m not sure if they’ve fallen out of fashion, or if she’s a bit old, but you could look at a sticker for every day she behaves nicely and a reward after X stickers. Just a thought.

Thank you for so many helpful responses x

She needs to be taught actions have consequences, take something off her till she behaves respectfully. And u need to carry it out not just threaten!

You have to remain consistent no matter what the provocation Or how sorry she is later not lifting the punishment. My friend's son When he was naughty he used to get sent to his room He'd go-up sit there for 10 to 15 minutes, she'd call him down speak to him, he'd apologise, take his punishment withut argument and it was all done and dusted in 20 minutes.

Her daughter Oh my God As soon as she tried to send her to her room she'd kick off, shouting, screaming, crying , begging not to be sent upstairs then stomping upstairs then coming part way down. Then when she was finally in her room shouting can she come down, shouting that she was sorry .My friend didn't let her come down until she'd sat up there quietly for about 10 minutes without throwing things around the place banging or shouting but sometimes getting that 10 minutes took two hours! She did the same thing with both children but they are going to react differently. I would say she's a similar age .Being consistent She did eventually stop.
Can you notice the signs and try and intervene sooner before she reaches boiling point? such as I feel I getting annoyed Let's take a breath let's have a drink of water or let's whatever

I am following with interest, my DD is 10, perfectly well behaved at school but my god, she is completely a different child at home. I ignore insults, just act like she hadn't said them as she stops when she gets bored when I don't react. But, bloody hell, the tantrums and physical retaliation I get if I take something from from her is immense, I can't ignore that!

School are aware of what she is like at home and have tried to help but I don't think they realise what she is really like at home as she is angel in class and for everyone else except me.

My DH became tetraplegic 5 years ago so can't physically move and all ge can do us verbally tell her to stop. She knows this and I do understand what happened has affected her but she takes advantage of it, knowing I am the only one to deal with it. It is so tiring xxx

You know "not acceptable" is the same amount of syllables as "abracadabra"...

Sympathy in your direction PoliteRoseViewer.

• *Also I think how you want your household to feel is very personal. I don't want to be issuing ultimatums and policing consequences. I'm far from an advocate of gentle parenting but the things I want her to have are good mental health and strong self-esteem, which generally she does.

I am very much focussed on de escalation techniques and modelling how to cope when things go wrong myself, which I've got better at. By the time she flies the nest I'll be qualified to do hostage negotiations I reckon! The advice from the school nursing team was what I am broadly doing but it was really helpful to hear that her behaviour was very normal and that I was on the right track as parental doubt was strong in the face of a distant slamming door...

This is the worst advice I have seen on this thread. Just horrible parenting.This is a recipe for your children going no contact when they’re an adult or having no real relationship with you. I want my children to love me and feel connected to me, not scared of me.

Quote from „How to talk so little kids will listen”:

”The most powerful tool you can wield is their sense of connection to you. The fact that you are willing to consider their feelings and solicit their opinions will keep their hearts and minds open to your feelings and opinions”.

I quite like this allthingsinmoderation.

🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️

I hope you have funds to go private as I suspect the time taken on a CAMHS waiting list for a psychiatrist appointment might rather take the wind out of your sails if the child in question calls your bluff...

I think this might lead to a rather unpleasant household environment whilst she earns back the lace socks, mightn't it?

Your modelling the behaviour by getting cross with her for being emotional… she’s therefore learning emotions are punishable (this will effect her self esteem long term) and also learning it’s okay to get cross when youre upset, which is what your telling her off for doing in the first place?
at 8 she’s going to be struggling to comprehend different feelings.
have you tried noticing what type of things trigger it, or any thing she does before she explodes?

Other than what to do in the moment which is going to be not much, except staying present and neutral, it sounds like she’d really benefit from work when she isn’t exploding, and is calm, about identifying her emotions, where she feels it in her body does it come on quickly or builds up till it spills over.
have a google about emotional regulation strategies and naming emotions and traffic light systems to notice when things are good, getting hard and bad. Do this work with her and model it, so she can see that this is a skill everyone can use and learn from. In my opinion as a therapist (adults not kids) I think it’s unreasonable to get cross and shout at a child for being cross and shouting - logically it makes no sense to them, they are in their emotional brain and are trying desperately to learn how to regulate themselves, and if they see you getting cross and shouting - that’s teaching them that’s the right way how to cope with big feelings.

other people will disagree and talk about “respect your elders” but that’s unhelpful in the middle of an emotional explosion .

is there also ANY chance it’s hormones as some children can start their periods as young as 8.

other things to consider - is she having enough time to run around and expend energy or is she on the iPad / tv all the time? Does she have any creative outlets like singing dancing arts crafts building things etc. what’s her diet and sleep like? Decent nutrition and sleep are imperative - low iron / b12 /. Vitamin d can contribute to poor mood regulation.

Yeah this tactic might work from toddler tantrum or ND meltdown til about 5 max....but by 8...big fat no.
Firstly at 8, my 95th percentile son would probably have us both falling down the stairs, secondly if you are using brute force after a child has reasoning skills, you are just saying the biggest bully wins...and given he is projected to be bigger than me by 13, that's a fools game.

For me I find modelling desired behaviour works better than consequences. You mention getting cross back. I think the biggest thing you can do is stay calm when she loses her temper. Maybe have a discussion about understanding that it is really really hard to regulate emotions but it is an important part of growing up.

Yes... actions need consequences...
But just a consequence does absolutely nothing to teach her how to regulate her emotions better next time.
We want to give our kids tools to deal in the moment, not only to behave a certain way to avoid a consequence

You've replied to me rather than the person I quoted, so not sure if they will be notified of your response...
But for what it's worth...I agree!!

There is a few posters on here op who pop up in these threads almost salivating at the thought of a child being punished, it’s really disturbing. They want you to punish hard then tell them whay you did and how much pain and misery you caused her,

the first thing is you need to remain calm youself. You can’t fire back. I know it’s hard but you lose the moral high ground.

you need to talk to her, and explain why it is unacceptable and the consequences for next time, that can be a quite time out, through to missing something if very bad. As she’s escalating just quietly remind her of the consequences, then walk away.

Any psychiatrist would very quickly see that the issue in your particular scenario is the abusive parenting. Medication is regulated in the UK, not handed out like sweeties to abusive parents.

And what happens when you have tried?

I worked with an educational psychologist many years ago who said that when you are trying to change behavior expect it to get worse before it gets better - but persist.

I would also suggest that you have a sit down with her and give her the “ enough is enough” talk. Tell her the consequences of her behavior and follow it through no matter what.

I also like to keep a record of how many times the behavior happens and what you did/the outcome. If she has a tantrum in her time out place that is up to her. Her behavior was not acceptable. She has to take the consequences. When she calms down she rejoins the family. It will be hard for you but the end result will be worth it.

Hi OP this sounds tough, I went through this with my oldest at a similar age. This is what I used to do. Not engage at all with the shouting, banging around etc. I’d just walk away or stay present but just sit calmly and quietly. Once he’d finished, I would calmly say I understand you are angry, but you need to go to your room now and we’ll talk about this more when you’re ready to apologise for the way you’ve just spoken to me. If he tried to fight back at that point I wouldn’t engage - I’d just walk away and start making the dinner or something.

when he was ready to apologise we’d have a talk (again) about how everyone feels angry and that’s ok, but it’s not ok to be rude to people, whether that’s me, a teacher, friends parent etc. There would always be a consequence - not going swimming later as planned, play date the next day cancelled, no time on the Nintendo switch that evening etc. and you have to be willing to follow though or you’ve got no hope of it sticking!