DP sexual punishment or am I boring?

[diabolicalbanana]

Long term DP relationship is good and we’re planning to buy a house together soon. He’s been away dog sitting for the last 2 weeks which has made me feel a bit distant from him and I’m not the best with messaging. But basically he came over yesterday after seeing me on Friday.

I was naked in a towel when he came as I was out the shower and he was on the bed wanting a cuddle which I wasn’t keen for (wanted to get dressed) he playfully pulled me onto him which was fine and we were laughing he was touching me but then my towel was slipping too much and he was getting a good look at my body but I felt self conscious so started to struggle he then grabbed under my legs so I panicked and twisted but the way he held me meant I had to twist so my bottom half went straight to his face!!! You can imagine my panic as was stark naked and I saw him get a good look.

I felt really embarrassed and upset especially because about a week or 2 ago a similar thing happened where I’d been without underwear under my dress (hot day) and all fine playing joking but then he ended up tipping me onto a chair and lifting my legs up so again when I panicked and tried to get free I twisted off the chair and ended up him holding me legs akimbo naked!! I had told
him I’m not ok with this.

so I said to him quite clearly do not do that again if you do then we’re done which I was a bit rash saying but I was upset and felt humiliated to be honest. I said I’m not cuddling you for the rest of the day (half joking but I didn’t want him to touch me) Well he then went into a bit of a strop with me and said I’d annoyed him. We had a nice day but he refused to cuddle or kiss me - he said as punishment for what I’d said, which I did want as I’ve hardly seen him and wanted to feel close.

when he went back to dog sitting he messaged saying how I’d turned him down and lost out today on sex as well. He’s meant to be coming back to mine today and I didn’t want it hanging over us so I said well I can make up for it. He said how? I was busy and don’t like sexting (didn’t have any ideas tbh!) so I tried to be vague sort of we’ll see.

he then said I would have to make up for what I’d done before he would come back! I said I hope you’re not being serious and he said deadly serious! I said well you’re not giving any ideas he then sent me a list of options including a video of how much I love him and saying sorry for being silly, various nudes, a voice note all the reasons I love him or the special option which was a video of me undressing! He said if I did that he’d come and sleep with me and be forgiven.

1. he is well aware ive neves been comfortable sending nudes.
2. I didn’t even want sex at that point.

I said im not comfortable doing that and he said what any of it? He said he just wanted a bit of fun and I said it’s not fun for me being pressured into doing things I don’t want to do. His last message was that he never pressured me.

situation now is neither of us have messaged each other. I’m worried am I boring and have I been unfair? Should I have tried to be a bit fun? But also I feel like the ‘punishment’ was options of further humiliation for me and I would not have enjoyed them I don’t like sending nudes certainly not videos I find it degrading.

Cant believe mumsnet deletes what is clearly obvious.

I think you are mis-reading and wilfully misinterpreting the replies actually. I don’t see where anyone has said there is something wrong with OP “because you don't want your consent ignored and you don't want him to look at your body intimately whenever he feels like it”. What some people have said is that maybe if OP worked on her self esteem she would not stick around in relationships where a man is ejaculating on her face after being told no. Some of us mentioning body image do have experience of abusive relationships actually. There is one thing that victims of abuse tend to have in common. They nearly always have low self esteem. Because it’s so much easier to abuse someone who already feels bad about themselves. People who are really secure in themselves don’t tend to end up in abusive relationships because they leave at the first whiff of a red flag. All very well advising someone to leave, but do you truly believe OP could not also benefit by getting some therapy to work through her body image issues? At the very least just so she might value herself enough to not ignore glaring signs of abuse in future relationships 🤷‍♀️

I see you have had a few deleted but I remember one of yours from yesterday and it was a disgusting thing to say.

Have you read the thread? There's a ton of victim-blaming, including one person who said that OP should not be in a relationship until she's comfortable being seen naked. And lots of others said things along similar lines. They were ignoring the fact that it was the force and the lack of consent that was the issue, in order to have a go at OP. Why else would anyone decide to criticise a woman who's posted about being physically forced to show her privates and threatened with jizz on her face after she said no? I have misread and wilfully misinterpreted nothing, so shoo!

All very well advising someone to leave, but do you truly believe OP could not also benefit by getting some therapy to work through her body image issues?

I think you must be getting me mixed up with another poster. I haven't said that OP should leave and not get therapy. I've said nothing about therapy at all.

At the end of the day OP, you get 1 life. If you are uncomfortable and your partner unwilling to address this kindly with you, then it’s time for some big decisions and buying a house with him is not one of them…

Have you read it? “Victim blaming” is not the same as advising someone to get help for their self esteem issues. Men like this get away with this kind of behaviour because a lot of women have low or zero self confidence. Are you so single minded that you cannot see two things can be true at the same time? The guy is abusive AND the OP would be well advised to work on her body image issues. It’s not usual to “panic” because your partner sees your vagina in the light of day and you’ve got no make up on. So a lot of people have mentioned that. If OP really trusted her partner then she likely wouldn’t have panicked over this.

Plus the information she offered up in the original post paints a very different picture to what she has subsequently added. She made it seem that this was a one of 2 incidents in which a towel had slipped and she had panicked over him seeing her naked. Naturally a lot of people have responded saying they think she has body image issues, because most of us wouldn’t panic over that alone. She later added that he has a history of controlling and abusive sexual behaviour. That completely changes the context of the original post but it doesn’t make the comments about self esteem invalid. As I said before, a woman with a good level of self esteem would have left after the first incident. Let alone entertained “making it up to him” after how he has behaved.

OP is only responsible for herself and her own actions, so people are naturally going to provide advice directed to her rather than to the abusive bloke. It is not “criticising” or having a go at the OP to suggest she would be wise to get therapy to work on her self esteem issues after leaving this relationship. It’s simply common sense to help ensure she does not get into another abusive relationship in future.

He is a weirdo and you should run

I HAVE read the thread, just as @CrazyMidget has.

Let's go through the PPs focusing on OP's "sexual hangups" and "lack of self-esteem", which by the way, she has neither - she wants sex more often than him and while she's a bit self-conscious because she's put on weight, she otherwise has no problem with being naked with him and him seeing her vulva WITH PERMISSION and WHEN SHE FEELS LIKE IT.

Growlybear83 had a lot to say, starting with, "how can you be embarrassed by the man who you are in a close enough relationship to be planning to buy a house with seeing your body naked? Has he never seen you without clothes on before or seen your ‘bottom half’?"

It was amazing (and worrisome) to see how many people - instead of focusing on the frightening coercion and manhandling perpetrated by the rapey boundary-violating partner - decided to hammer on OP's presumed prudishness. She came here to ask whether she was unreasonable to not like her partner sexually assaulting her (having graphically detailed the assaulting behaviour) and .... the answer from many was to blame HER for being "prudish".

There were so many like Growlybear:
ImImmortalNowBabyDoll
I'm confused as to why you'd be embarrassed about your long term partner seeing your bottom half?
ohnowhat
That kind of physical playing is not for me, but I know some couples like it. I do think you are a bit odd being worried about him seeing you naked though. You are not on the same page about these things and you both seem a bit childish to be honest.
BeeHive909
Until you sort out your issues with sex and also your body you shouldn’t be in a relationship. This isn’t the right relationship for you but you also shouldn’t be In one at the moment anyway. This guy has seen you and your vagina probably like a thousand times he knows what it looks like.
Anon1216
I don’t see anything wrong with the first bit.. him trying to have a playful cuddle etc. I’m a prude but think you’re even more of a prude for not wanting your long term partner to see you naked or to physically desire you.
JoJuniorShabadoo
He saw you naked? And that's a problem?
PunnyPlumPanda
Absolutely wouldn’t bother me
my husband been down there loads and seen it tons. Plus it’s a beautiful part of our bodies. I’m proud of mine." [Whoopee for you, PPP]
DixonD
I’m a bit confused about this - why would you panic about your towel coming off in the presence of your long term DP? Do you not get undressed in front of each other? Your initial situation just sounds like a normal playful interaction between a couple. Why are you panicking?" [If this is normal for this PP, maybe she should do the Freedom Programme, because she has normalised sexual assault]
YourWildAmberSloth
It sounds strange from both sides tbh. His behaviour is abusive and creepy. However it also seems strange that you're in a long term relationship yet you didn't want hime to see you naked (you said something about the towel slipping too much). Either way this is not a healthy relationship - you really need to walk away and ideally do some work on yourself through counselling/therapy.

Then there was the other bunch of PPs, who ALSO overlooked - or did not notice?/care about? - the sexual assaults and sexual harassment, and decided that it's simply a matter of incompatibility, that this is normal behaviour from a man. These people do not seem to realise that if you do ANYTHING sexual to someone, or even anything physical, you need CONSENT from that person. The fact that they think this is normal is alarming:

OwlCalledSage
What a waffle. You’re clearly not compatible.
AmITotallyBonkers
I feel like this is possibly not the relationship for you. I’d not bat an eyelid at this and enjoy the playfulness. Maybe you’re a mismatch.
ScrollingLeaves
You also do not seem at all compatible anyway.
Rwalker
your not compatible. a lot of people are touchy feely and very direct about sex
good for them. but unless your both in the same page it’s not going to work
Twinkylightsg
It sounds like you two just aren't compatible.
Dhangoinchains
Reading all your posts I think you just sound incompatible. He wants dominating and dirty sex and you don’t want him to see your vagina. It’s not a match made in heaven. I don’t think he sounds abusive though tbf, you both sound childish though.
Mumto2at
Your just not sexually compatible so it needs to end

Then there were posters with their own particular strain of victim-blaming:
Bonkers1966
Unless you are in the middle of a psychotic break or something, you have very poor taste in men and exceptionally low standards.
Brightlittlecanary
I think though when you’re living with a sex pest and pervert who will abuse your boundaries, it’s important to have your knickers on in future
Blomama
You both need to grow up.

And several even demonstrated sympathy for the predatory partner:
ByRedBee
He should dump you. it’s very weird it’s a long term relationship and you are so prudish about the lighting in sex
Truffleruffle
Dump him your obviously not confident in this relationship and he sounds into things your not. Sorry you’re not recognising that he has lots of emotional issues going on. You need to leave this relationship and go solo for a while to work out what you want I ca relationship.

And then there's you, @Sunshine231 :
You need therapy to work on your body image issues. It’s not normal to hate your body so much you don’t want your partner to see you naked. Not defending his actions as I don’t think he’s been great but for your own sake you should want to improve your relationship with your body. What a sad way to live your life. I have low self esteem but even I wouldn’t get upset over a partner accidentally seeing me naked.
If someone’s self esteem is that low I highly doubt they will have the confidence to leave an abusive relationship. Self esteem IS a huge part of driving someone to be able to leave when they are being abused. If you hate yourself to the extent you are far more likely to believe you deserve to be treat badly. Even if she has the courage to leave this guy, without addressing her own issues she will likely just get into another relationship with someone else who is abusive. Women with low self esteem are a sitting target for abusers.

While I DO understand your overall point, OP does NOT have body confidence issues:

"I don’t hate my body! I don’t feel great about my weight as I said but I don’t think I have this huge issue about how I view my own body, as it’s been pointed out the scenario we’re talking about is not just ‘seeing my vagina’ in the light of day it’s staring at it a few centimetres away in the position I was in and struggling we weren’t gearing up to have sex whatsoever either. Described quite accurately by a pp as an ‘amateur gynaecologist inspection’!"

So your advice is irrelevant here, and in the context of the thread, inappropriate.

Also, "Not defending his actions as I don’t think he’s been great" is a VERY tepid way to describe what this man did and is doing.

You - and SO MANY PPs - are weirdly focusing on the wrong things. What you have all seemed to have overlooked is that this man has sexually assaulted OP, and that his behaviour and the language in his texts are showing clearly that she is in danger of being raped by him.

Do you really believe the OPs partner is reading this thread and taking on board comments about consent? Watching your little video about tea is he? This thread IS to advise the OP not to advise the bloke about the idea of consent. He’s not here to read it so that is wasted energy here. The idea of getting professional help for poor self esteem is SOOOO relevant here. She clearly does have issues with her self confidence. Shes allowed this man to continue with escalating abusive behaviour and even now I doubt she is planning to leave him. And why? Because she has cripplingly low self esteem. It’s laughable that you think comments on self esteem are not relevant when providing advice to someone who is being sexually abused.

Also my comment "Not defending his actions as I don’t think he’s been great" was based purely on the original post. Once I read the further updates and the history of sexual assault in the relationship I was very clear in describing it as abuse. The two incidents in the original post, do not, on their own, clearly constitute abuse in my opinion. But accompanied by the further things OP has added in comments, it’s obvious the towel slipping and dress incidents were a part of a wider pattern of abuse.

A number of posters have shared that they’d have no problem with their partners looking at their bodies like this, and have implied it’s weird that she reacted badly to him exposing her in the way that he did. Yes, some people suggested working on self-esteem…but most based that suggestion on the same assumption you’ve made; that OPs discomfort and self-consciousness when subjected to a predatory male gaze means she has “body image issues”.

OP has explained, in multiple posts, that it wasn’t about him seeing her naked: he has seen her naked many, many times - in daylight, too. In her exact words: “I am happy for him to see me naked when I choose as pointed out both of these occasions I definitely was not choosing for that to happen and it was not in a way that I felt dignified, confident or even wanting sex at the time” - she has explained that it was “more that it felt like it was degrading and humiliating because I didn’t have control it made me feel ashamed and embarrassed”.
She later explained further:
“Also I don’t hate my body! I don’t feel great about my weight as I said but I don’t think I have this huge issue about how I view my own body, as it’s been pointed out the scenario we’re talking about is not just ‘seeing my vagina’ in the light of day it’s staring at it a few centimetres away in the position I was in and struggling we weren’t gearing up to have sex whatsoever either.”

People who are really secure in themselves don’t tend to end up in abusive relationships because they leave at the first whiff of a red flag.
OP has been blindsided by abusive behaviour from a man she never expected to act like this, after being with him for a long time. I had no body image issues, was very confident and there were no “glaring signs of abuse”…until the signs appeared, after several very happy years, apparently out of nowhere. I eventually became self-conscious around him because he was objectifying me, not because I had body image issues or low self-esteem…and I wasn’t in a relationship with him because I didn’t ‘value myself enough’. It’s confusing and destabilising when there have been no red flags, you think you know someone very well, then they suddenly turn into someone you don’t recognise at all. (In my case I didn’t immediately leave with the very first sign because he was, by that point, a long-term partner - the personality transplant was so bizarre I thought he must be having a mental health crisis).

do you truly believe OP could not also benefit by getting some therapy to work through her body image issues? At the very least just so she might value herself enough to not ignore glaring signs of abuse in future relationships 🤷‍♀️
‘Valuing yourself’ and a lack of body image issues are not the same thing. Part of “valuing yourself” includes having boundaries around when somebody is allowed to look at and/or touch your body, and respecting your own comfort levels with regard to that.
OP was uncomfortable because her boundaries were crossed. She’s not ‘ignoring’ glaring signs of abuse - she’s come here to challenge the gaslighting he’s now attempting, because she recognises that his behaviour isn’t okay. She’s values herself enough to recognise that she shouldn’t be treated like this.

She doesn’t need to work on changing her boundaries or feelings around this. Everyone’s different, some people are more reserved: that’s totally fine and should be respected. If you genuinely believe being comfortable with a partner seeing you naked in the kinds of situations OP described in her first post equates to self-worth…you might want to look into some additional therapy for yourself.

I'm sorry for the appalling responses you've had from some posters here.

Your reaction to his actions were proportionate, justified and normal. Also, being forced into nudity is completely different to choosing. I can't quite believe that some posters have got side tracked without realising this. You shouldn't have had to explain.

This guy is abusive and what you're seeing now is him testing you to see how much he can control you. It's not funny and that's why you're not finding it funny. It's deadly serious.

I'm really sorry but you need to break up with him. Cancel the mortgage appointments and get free without engaging further. You owe him nothing. DO NOT listen to him trying to apologise. This behaviour is deeply ingrained and it's not going to change any time soon. He's just bad news.

You've said you don't know if you can trust in the future. There are decent guys out there. He is not one of them. You can't trust this one. As hard as it is, you need to get out of this toxic relationship. You've done it before and you can do it again. You can heal but that's for the future. Tell someone you trust that he's trying to make you do things you don't want to do and you need help to get him out or get your things out.

I speak from experience. You will never feel safe or be safe with this man. He's deeply manipulative and probably gives a very convincing apology. Please please ignore it.

can we not just nail this response to the top of the thread and have done with it?

"It’s laughable that you think comments on self esteem are not relevant when providing advice to someone who is being sexually abused."

OP does NOT have self-esteem problems. She's said it ad nauseam. I can understand why you might think this from the early posts but you said you have read all of OP's posts and OP has since clarified that she does NOT have self-esteem issues.

I mean this kindly: your insistence that OP has self-esteem issues and that is why she "let" this guy assault her has no bearing on reality and you would be better off giving that advice to women who DO have self esteem problems.

It's a good point in general, it's just not relevant here.

@LouiseMadetheBestBroccoliPasta Your post compiling all the unhelpful and blaming things that PP have said to this poor OP, who is experiencing sexual force, was a thing of beauty. Thank you so much.

And to @Sunshine231, and all PPs who said that OP was odd or weird in some way about nudity, as detailed in Louise's post, essentially calling her a prude - as some actually did.

WHAT'S PRUDERY GOT TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF FISH?

I don't think OP is prudish, anyway - most women don't have the body confidence of a supermodel every minute of every day. But that's ENTIRELY beside the point. I'll try to be clear:

Person X, A Complete Prude, Wears Flannel Nighties and Has Sex Only at Christmas and On Birthdays: Not OK to physically hold her legs open or go to jizz on her face when she said no.

Person Y, Strips for a Living, Is a Naturist, Walks around Naked As Much As Possible: Not OK to physically hold her legs open or go to jizz on her face when she said no.

OP's comfort level around nudity in a relationship is TOTALLY AND UTTERLY IRRELEVANT. The ONLY thing that matters is that he physically forced her to do something SHE DID NOT WANT TO. How are people not getting that?

And can we retire the word prude? I hate it, it's SO judgemental. It belongs in the same bin as broken home and mistress. And too many other gendered insults to write out here.

If he makes you feel disrespected, then listen to the way you are feeling. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Imagine how being treated like that will affect you over years and years. This kind of behaviour typically gets worse rather than better.