To think it’s turning into genocide in real time

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

Just seen this on the news- how can this be right? It genuinely is starting to feel like genocide.

What Hamas did was beyond appalling. But this is also beyond appalling too. Its trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Over 500 kids have already died. Human rights watch have verified that Israel uses white phosphorus against Gaza, which is a war crime.

And everyone is just watching it happen.

“The Israeli army has just ordered the entire civilian population of Gaza to evacuate south within 24 hours. The UN says that amounts to 1.1 million people& applies to 100s of 1000s sheltered in UN buildings & their staff. This is impossible without “devastating human consequences”
Leaving aside the international law implications, I cannot emphasise enough how impossible this kind of movement of people would be. I have spent a lot of time in Gaza it is one of the most densely populated places on earth, there are pretty much only 2 roads south - along the coast and down the centre - they aren’t wide or well paved. I spoke to the gaza health ministry yesterday who said every hospital was overflowing. How would the wounded and elderly be transported? There is a massive fuel shortage how would vehicles drive? There would be no where for 1.1 million to go even if they got there. Rafah crossing to Egypt is not operational because of Israeli airstrikes.”

This is how Genocide is classified;
U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide:

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

• Killing members of the group;

• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

• Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"

The actions of both Israel & Hamas fit this description too. It’s just fucking beyond terrible. And it feels like some world leaders are just cheering from the sidelines 😪

Interesting that my post commenting on the trolls on this thread got deleted- not quite sure why? There has been some trolling on what’s otherwise been a good discussion

You think it’s ok to barter with the lives of babies? To starve innocent people? You are no better than Hamas who you blame for everything.

@TeacupKitty I assume you're aware that's exactly what Hamas did, right? They literally kidnapped babies to use as bargaining chips. That was the only purpose of the kidnappings

And no, I don't think it's ok that children are starving in Gaza. Not sure why it's up to Israel to keep them fed though? All Hamas had to do was return the hostages and the Palestinians would've had food, water, electricity etc

They are under siege. By Israel. So yes it is Israel’s responsibility. No humane government would allow collective punishment like this, it’s illegal and despicable. Shame on you for supporting it.

No one supports Hamas. But you support Israel, who are killing thousands.

@Coughingdodger the answer you were supposed to give is "but antisemitism!!!". The answer you gave however, is correct.

@1dayatatime I think you're the one who needs education as to what apartheid is. Either that or deprogramming.

@OhHelloTheres I've reported one of your more batshit posts. We're bad enough on this thread without your insane lies.

@Coughingdodger

"Israel getting billions in military aid from
the West. Palestine is getting nothing.
THAT is what the protest is about.
this question makes me angry."

+++

Emotionally I understand this is how you perceive it and how it makes you feel angry but factually it is incorrect.

The Palestinian National Authority within the West Bank and Gaza Strip receives one of the highest levels of aid in the world of which the single largest donator is the United States, followed by the EU and then the Arab States.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/InternationalaiddtoPalestinians

Of course there is the question of how well this aid money gets spent and what is lost to corruption by either Hamas or Fatah but that is a matter for the Palestinians themselves.

No one is calling on Israel to feed them. Israel simply need to stop preventing aid agencies from sending in food and water supplies.

What Israel is doing is collective punishment; a war crime. You acknowledge as much when you say that if Hamas returned the hostages the Palestinians could have food and water, an entire civilian population starved because of the terrorists hiding among them.

Do you not see how fucked up that is?

Terrorism is also a crime. Two wrongs have never made a right.

@Toothyfruity out of interest, what was the lie? No worries if you can't/don't want to tell me. I don't really expect you to be able to back up your accusation. But in the event that I have been misleading in any way I'd appreciate the chance to rectify it

@Toothyfruity

@1dayatatime I think you're the one who needs education as to what apartheid is. Either that or deprogramming.

+++

If I have made a point that is factually incorrect on the definition of apartheid please point it out.

But throwing around political buzzwords as insults like fascism or neo Nazis or apartheid without actually understanding what they mean does not make it factually correct.

And thank you for the personal insult- I generally take that stage as the point at which the other person has clearly run out of logical debate.

@Toothyfruity

"What a stupid post. Well probably not stupid as much as brainwashed."

.++++

The post by @Coughingdodger stated

"Palestine is getting nothing."

I simply pointed out that factually this is incorrect and that the PA get one of the highest levels of aid in the world with the biggest donors being the US, then the EU and then the Arab States.

If you believe this to be factually incorrect and that the PA indeed get no aid at all from the West then correct me.

Again the personal attacks simply demonstrate that you have run out of a logical counter argument.

Clearly, Mumsnet believe you broke their Talk Guidelines, so I wouldn't act the innocent if I were you. 🤔

They have a policy about troll hunting so maybe it was that.

They also must have a policy about not mentioning the well-publicised fact that Israel pays people to fight their case online. That's the only reason I can think of for them deleting my last post because the rest of it was just telling @1dayatatime to read the Amnesty report detailing how Israel imposes apartheid on Palestinians which I posted an article about upthread which contains a link to the report.

No, you blatantly carried out an Ad Hominem on another poster. Mumsnet has a rule against personal attacks on members, so I expect that is why your post was deleted.

Same goes for @Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73.

As @1dayatatime said, personal attacks show you're running out of logical counterargument.

Like I said, I wouldn't act the innocent. 🤔

While I wait for @Toothyfruity to let me know what I apparently lied about, I just wanted to mention that Amnesty International are an extremely biased organisation and a lot of different groups and countries have complained about them for years. Any report of theirs is to be taken with a big handful of salt. If the report says something you find interesting, I'd suggest you then go on and research it further rather than take their word for it.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/14/israel-students-social-media/2651715/

I think it's a fair question to ask.

Meanwhile posts talking about imaginary atrocities remain intact. Strange.

What imaginary atrocities might that be? If this is related to my supposed lies I'm happy to send links if needed

https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1114702
The UN and Human Rights Watch have also said it's apartheid.

But that state of apartheid is small potatoes when you see what they're doing now. Murdering thousands of civilians.

What rock do you live under?
Today’s 20-somethings are well travelled - as opposed to just sitting on a beach ordering drinks from a brown person they actually work and socialise with people from all cultures. Inconveniently for many, they don’t regard brown people from furrin lands as expendable.
I myself am not young so I don’t fall into your brainwashed category. I’m well travelled though and like many people on mumsnet I have children. So that’s why I don’t like to see toxic psychopaths murdering children. Simple as that.

Toothyfruity
The UN and Human Rights Watch have also said it's apartheid

Your link says;
Special Rapporteurs are part of what’s known as the Special Procedures of the Human Rights Council. They are not UN staff, and do not receive a salary for their work, and serve in their own individual capacity.

Wrong. They are getting nothing at the moment.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/17/first-responders-hamas-attack-israel-diamond-pkg-tsr-vpx.cnn