To think it’s turning into genocide in real time

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

Just seen this on the news- how can this be right? It genuinely is starting to feel like genocide.

What Hamas did was beyond appalling. But this is also beyond appalling too. Its trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Over 500 kids have already died. Human rights watch have verified that Israel uses white phosphorus against Gaza, which is a war crime.

And everyone is just watching it happen.

“The Israeli army has just ordered the entire civilian population of Gaza to evacuate south within 24 hours. The UN says that amounts to 1.1 million people& applies to 100s of 1000s sheltered in UN buildings & their staff. This is impossible without “devastating human consequences”
Leaving aside the international law implications, I cannot emphasise enough how impossible this kind of movement of people would be. I have spent a lot of time in Gaza it is one of the most densely populated places on earth, there are pretty much only 2 roads south - along the coast and down the centre - they aren’t wide or well paved. I spoke to the gaza health ministry yesterday who said every hospital was overflowing. How would the wounded and elderly be transported? There is a massive fuel shortage how would vehicles drive? There would be no where for 1.1 million to go even if they got there. Rafah crossing to Egypt is not operational because of Israeli airstrikes.”

This is how Genocide is classified;
U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide:

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

• Killing members of the group;

• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

• Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"

The actions of both Israel & Hamas fit this description too. It’s just fucking beyond terrible. And it feels like some world leaders are just cheering from the sidelines 😪

Humanitarian disaster off the scale
How can people do this to their fellow human beings

Will be marching tomorrow in London ( haven’t done that since the 80s )
Hope some other MNs can show their support in some way too.

Its all over Aljazeera news also.

"PRCS faces an imminent threat. The IOF demands the evacuation of Al-Quds Hospital, a sanctuary for over 400 patients and around 12,000 displaced civilians.

We call the international community to act urgently, averting another catastrophe like Al-Ahli Hospital"

https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1715415685096931626

Hostage news is in Guardian

The hospital is currently home to over 400 patients and 12,000 displaced civilians, according to the Red Crescent

😔

This doesn’t explain why they didn’t respond to the message that they received just before Hamas were about to attack, or why it took so long when there were so many people calling and saying exactly where they were and what was happening.

Unfortunately your entire post reads like an Israeli government PR post.

Seeing as Polly has suddenly decided that she’s allegedly Irish and therefore couldn’t possibly comment (despite being very, very active on these threads), @DownNative what do you say to those who say that this was a gross failure of the police and army and that all of the political unrest in Israel from Netanyahu trying to make himself unable to be prosecuted in Israeli courts is what diverted the attention away from picking up on the Hamas attack, because he’s been too busy picking on his own people?

They have now enforced a ban on foreign media AKA silencing any media critical of the current Israeli government.

See attached.

Does it not bother you that the fascism shown against the Palestinians is also being forced onto Israelis? Or is it fine because it aligns with your own political ideology?

Do you truly think that there will ever be peace with Netanyahu’s government in power, despite them profiting from arms and military intelligence sales that arise out of their warfare? Despite him showing time and again that he will react in a grossly disproportionate way to any attacks on Israel (which many of us here see as amounting to genocide)? Despite him being indicted for fraud charges, receiving bribes and other corruption charges, do you still see him as trustworthy?

Do you not see that the type of rhetoric that he uses is reminiscent of the Nazis I.e calling Jewish people children of light vs Palestinians as children of darkness. Do you not see someone who dehumanises children and uses fear to control his people as fundamentally evil and deserving of skepticism?

My God your bar is fucking low OP.

Re your spectator attachment @OneHurtSpaggettio
That explains all the journalists killed so far

This is the reality
The world should know what’s happening.

@DownNative Have you actually worked in terrorist counterintelligence? In between the fascismimg naturally.

Knowledge is important.

The removal of Hamas, Hezbollah, the Iranian regime and Netanyahu is what I wish. Extremism has no place in a secular society.

Exactly!
Truth is knowledge
So let’s post the truth

Unfortunately your entire post reads like an Israeli government PR post

yes, yes it does.

my original point was about why, when mobile phone communications were clearly possible, does it take the most advanced military machine almost 8 hours to respond to a serious, large attack, when it’s just a few miles from Tel?!?

If there was an atrocious attack here in the U.K., I’d expect armed forces within an hour or two, we have seen that here in previous attacks and we’re a relatively stable place with an underfunded police force

why, on the edge of a walled prison that you know contains heavily armed extremists, would this be left wide open?

And they were warned by Egypt

I know people who did, family and contacts I've built up over many years. I've also studied Terrorism, Security & Counter-Terrorism.

Interesting. Grim subject though.

Your original point about the communications, including mobiles was answered.

Over the last few days, Israelis have had a very disrupted mobile network so their Government advised them to be vigilant and not to rely on text message alerts for the foreseeable.

Welcome to modern 21st Century warfare.

An efficient, effective communications network is what allows an army to coordinate defence/attack and mobilisation of personnel.

Egypt's warning days before has been covered too.

Apply Hanlon's Razor here. A number of weaknesses was present in the Israeli security chain.

It is, but I doubt I'd have ever had any interest in it had my family and I not been targeted by PIRA, including a murder. That explains a lot.

Welcome to modern 21st Century warfare.

Which is now a battle between dictatorships and democracy. Who gets that?

Gaza, Hamas, extremist Israeli government policy is being catalysed today as a weapon to defeat democracy.

All this hand-wringing while Putin, China and Iran are rubbing their hands in glee. They will offer amazing solutions for peace won't they?

Genocide in Chechnya, child abduction in Ukraine.
Genocide of Uighyrs, Tibet
Genocide of Jews and the stoning of women.

But still the handwringers come on.

Over the last few days, Israelis have had a very disrupted mobile

However, it was Chrystal clear when the audio recordings of the guys who’d accidentally bombed the hospital were on air, eh?

fake noise looped in the background

’yeah guv, I tried to do the bombs on my John smith of 22 London avenue but you know the copper got me fair guv mat’

‘oh what did that john get you, yes well maybe we will succeed next time, hope they don’t spot we’re obviously fake why are we actually doing this blah’

Something like that. Was quite clear reception that night though, evidently

@OneHurtSpaggettio I think there's no doubt there was a wide ranging failure of the overall Israeli security apparatus.

And I think they have to seriously sort out the resilience of their communications systems against jamming of PNT and GNSS. All Western Governments recognise that is the new future security risk along with cyber warfare and AI.

They'll have to go back to basics in terms of security because it looks like they've had an overreliance on technology. Modern technology has its place, but it cannot fully replace tried and tested proven security measures.

Israel is not a society in peacetime. Its one in wartime. Strict security measures are to be expected. I mean, I lived through a counter-terrorism security operation and understood the measures was intended to weaken the terrorists. Not as strict as it will be in Israel. But any State in wartime is going to do it. Great Britain is lucky enough to not have had any major sweeping security measures since WW2.

I'd expect Israel to return to peacetime security levels whenever the threat passes. A lot will depend on what Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran do. That's why the United States has mobilised in readiness.

Right now, Israel has a unity government. However, there's far too many variables to make any kind of speculation, let alone prediction of future government there. One thing is for sure....Israel’s society has changed permanently. Gone is any belief they can collaborate with Gaza in any way and it is Gaza that it is going to cut ties with in future.

The United States post-9/11 is the closest comparison to Israel post-7/10. Might be some insights there.

Well said
I understand uk/ c4 has done a lot of research on this spliced together piece.

research on this spliced together piece

im an audio engineer by trade, I fake this kind of stuff regularly, for a living.

this was very clearly fabricated

No, that doesn't follow.

Israel is seeking to disrupt PNT and GNSS which impacts upon weapons systems. So, the main targets is the terrorist's own systems.

www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2023-10-16/ty-article/.premium/israel-ramps-up-gps-jamming-to-thwart-hezbollah-hamas-drone-attacks/0000018b-3784-d051-a1cb-3fdfdfe10000

Unfortunately, it does disrupt civilian systems from phones to air traffic control. It's not being jammed 24/7 or anything like that.

https://www.defsecme.com/defence/tech/gps-jamming-escalates-amid-israel-hamas-conflict

You can even find articles from months ago about planes being forced to land due to an unknown force jamming signals.

So, it's quite well established in the Middle East.

No, that doesn't follow

no, it does though really doesn’t it

you have an extremely polarised view, and it’s not particularly balanced.

Another Israeli government sanitised PR response.

You haven’t addressed the fact that people called and told the emergency responders their location, but they didn’t respond for up to 26 hours in some cases. There are recordings of people who called who later died.

The Israeli government is now refusing to let in aid in, in exchange for hostages - this government that allegedly care so much for Israeli citizens.

The United States post-9/11 is the closest comparison to Israel post-7/10. Might be some insights there.

This, I agree with. I also believe that the US let 9/11 happen, just like I believe Israel let 7/10 happen. I think both countries knew full well what was about to happen. Both events slotted in perfectly to the overall goals and objectives of the government at the time. The US put out the Patriot Act almost immediately after 9/11 and then went to war off the back of it, and surveillance suddenly becomes readily accepted.

Likewise, Netanyahu can become the dictator he has always wanted to be, as the Israeli morale is brought to its knees and even moderates could be moved to turning a blind eye to genocide. At a point when the country was divided, they are forced to unite them with a tragedy. Censorship becomes accepted under the guise of “security” and Netanyahu has firmly repositioned himself as the good guy fighting the baddies, even using WWII language and quotes to manipulate and claw back public favour, all whilst finally “cleansing” Gaza of Palestinians without restraint and stealing yet more of their land, and playing the wounded lamb to the the Western world.

Separately, I’m sorry to hear about the IRA attack on your family and I hope they’re doing better now.

@OneHurtSpaggettio

"I also believe that the US let 9/11 happen, just like I believe Israel let 7/10 happen. I think both countries knew full well what was about to happen. Both events slotted in perfectly to the overall goals and objectives of the government at the time"

++++

It is at this point of conspiracy theorising that any credibility is gone.

There has always been the cock up versus conspiracy debate with it being cock up 99% of the time.

However your view points are too extreme and detached from both reality and the views ordinary people if you genuinely think that the US Government deliberately allowed 2996 civilian deaths in 9/11 and Israeli Government allowed 1200 civilian deaths in the recent terrorist attack.