To think it’s turning into genocide in real time

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

Just seen this on the news- how can this be right? It genuinely is starting to feel like genocide.

What Hamas did was beyond appalling. But this is also beyond appalling too. Its trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Over 500 kids have already died. Human rights watch have verified that Israel uses white phosphorus against Gaza, which is a war crime.

And everyone is just watching it happen.

“The Israeli army has just ordered the entire civilian population of Gaza to evacuate south within 24 hours. The UN says that amounts to 1.1 million people& applies to 100s of 1000s sheltered in UN buildings & their staff. This is impossible without “devastating human consequences”
Leaving aside the international law implications, I cannot emphasise enough how impossible this kind of movement of people would be. I have spent a lot of time in Gaza it is one of the most densely populated places on earth, there are pretty much only 2 roads south - along the coast and down the centre - they aren’t wide or well paved. I spoke to the gaza health ministry yesterday who said every hospital was overflowing. How would the wounded and elderly be transported? There is a massive fuel shortage how would vehicles drive? There would be no where for 1.1 million to go even if they got there. Rafah crossing to Egypt is not operational because of Israeli airstrikes.”

This is how Genocide is classified;
U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide:

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

• Killing members of the group;

• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

• Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"

The actions of both Israel & Hamas fit this description too. It’s just fucking beyond terrible. And it feels like some world leaders are just cheering from the sidelines 😪

I think you’re right because many of the posts are nonsense.

This thread and others like it have at least cleared up one thing for me. I've never understood how people stood by and allowed the Holocaust to happen.

I don't have to wonder about that any more.

And before Zionists lose their minds I'm not saying what's happening now is the same as murdering 6 million Jews in the Holocaust. But watching people excuse crimes against humanity and seeing the insane amount of dehumanisation that's going on it makes sense to me now how it happened. And how we're seeing genocide happen again.

Assuming @Toothyfruity you are referring to this pack of lies.
What a disgusting post
Mumsnet are a disgrace for not taking this down yet.

This sort of post reflects how desperate some posters have become to justify Israel’s actions.
Making it up as they go along.

@PaxOmnibus I just posted a link to a video on CNN where the man whose job it was to locate and prepare the bodies for burial speaks of his experience and what he saw

Not independent.
There we’re lots of independent news agencies on the scene let’s see their reports.

You clearly want to believe this crap

@PaxOmnibus are you saying that man is lying about what happened, just to be clear?

Oh whatever, you don't have to believe me. It doesn't make it a lie. I'm not sure if they took photos of everything they saw or if they just dealt with it straight away. I'll try to find out. But it happened. Not sure why you wouldn't believe it? I mean, it was done by terrorists. Terrorists aren't normally known for their great moral compass. You choosing to believe Hamas over this volunteer is quite bizarre.

@OhHelloTheres there has been near-constant minimising, underplaying of the atrocity, demands for evidence.
The stupid fuckers happily recorded their handiwork and uploaded it to social media and that still isn't enough for people. They take the word of Hamas time and again, from Shani Louk to the recent hospital bombing allegation.

The man in the video is from this charity by the way

https://zakaworld.org/

A charity that has helped out in rescue missions all over the world. They're a legitimate organisation. He's not just some randomer off the streets. He's a truly good man who has seen some awful things in his life.

@SomeCatFromJapan I know, they don't seem to actually understand what happened on 7th October despite all the evidence available. They're seemingly choosing not to believe any of it 🥴 Mindboggling.

I truly hope for peace soon. It just won't happen until the hostages are returned. Took 5 years to get Gilad Shalit back, so I'm not holding out too much hope 😭 That 9 month old won't even remember his parents if this goes on for much longer

An Israeli charity.

The tropes of Arabs cutting out babies and beheading babies are often trotted out by those who want them to look like animals. The beheading lie took legs this time around but turned out to be bullshit.

Anyway I think Hamas are absolute scumbags. The problem we have is that I can see that and also see that Israel murdering Palestinian babies is wrong but the Israeli side only thinks that one of those things is wrong.

You say you think Hamas are scumbags yet you don't support Israel getting rid of them once and for all.

I've said multiple times that I think it's terrible so many people are being killed in Gaza. They're not the targets though. Except for the "opportunistic civilians" who also decided to take hostages in the spur of the moment, of course. Hopefully some innocent civilians who know where the hostages are speak up so this can end. Otherwise this is going to go on for years and I don't think anyone wants that. I know I sure as hell don't.

Oh and people were beheaded. Maybe not 40 babies, but people were beheaded. Again, not sure why you don't believe it?

And yes, an Israeli charity. Does that mean it's by default lying? Interesting perspective.

The tropes of Arabs cutting out babies and beheading babies are often trotted out by those who want them to look like animals. The beheading lie took legs this time around but turned out to be bullshit.

Babies were killed though. Burned and mutilated. Some of the bodies are in such poor condition that they are still not identified.
Sorry that is an offensive trope though. That's the really upsetting part.

The Rwandan and Yazidi Genocides, the various contemporary massacres of various indigenous nations and a host of other slaughters did not make you wonder? Only now?

Somehow it seems you have missed a long list of crimes against humanity and suddenly only care now.

Hamas said that they’d release hostages in exchange for a ceasefire. Israel refused.

Well not when getting rid of them involves murdering thousands of civilians.

I mentioned that it was an Israeli charity as the inference above was that it was international.

I know that atrocities were committed but that's not the same as recycling lies about beheaded babies etc which was the point of my post.

I didn't recycle any lies. I didn't mention beheaded babies, "just" that people were beheaded. Which they were. Babies were murdered in other ways though.

I didn't mean to imply that the charity was an international one - I really didn't. I was just trying to explain that it's a well-regarded charity internationally, which it is.

If Hamas aren't dealt with now, there will be several more thousand days in the near future. But I guess they would be Israeli deaths so I guess they'd be deserved?

Hamas wants to rid the world of all Jews. That is their aim. How does that not scare you? They're no different to Isis. Should we let them run free as well?

I know that atrocities were committed but that's not the same as recycling lies about beheaded babies etc which was the point of my post.

Why the fixation on this?! The immediate aftermath of a terrorist attack is going to be a scene of massive confusion. Awful things happened, and then people seized on anything they could find to minimise those things. It's really horrible. The babies are just as dead. People are just as tortured, raped and mutilated.

Exactly @Toothyfruity Zaka are Israeli and therefore not independent and it’s interesting that this Propaganda has not been put out by other independent sources as fact.
Why….I wonder

Meanwhile back in the real world and on the subject matter of this thread

Other recent report

Thank you @MNHQ for letting this thread stay open.

@Toothyfruity

"Anyway I think Hamas are absolute scumbags."

+++

This too simplistic and too emotionally driven.

Hamas came to power over Fatah through charity work in Gaza and presenting a more noble image than Fatah which was widely perceived as corrupt.

Once they came to power and realised governing Gaza wisely was considerably more difficult than operating as a charity they too became corrupt.

In order to keep the Palestinian population of Gaza on side they had a choice of the incredibly hard job of turning round an impoverished country or start a war. This is a common theme in history for example Argentinian junta and the Falklands. You see the problems you are facing are all the fault of those people over there.

However to keep this strategy going they needed to become more and more extreme and violent in their terrorist acts towards Israel or otherwise lose support to PIJ.

At the same time countries such as Iran could use them as useful stooges in their proxy wars without being directly involved or harmed.

Getting rid of Hamas by force will achieve nothing, it will simply create resentment and they will be replaced by people more extreme. Leaving Hamas in place is also not an option as far as Israel is concerned.

The solution therefore is incredibly difficult to find. But the ordinary Palestinians need to be informed by facts that Hamas are not on their side that they line their own pockets whilst ignoring poverty and that they act as other countries stooges whilst expecting ordinary civilians to lose their lives. At this point the civilians can make their own choices but I fear such an information campaign will simply be dismissed as Western propaganda.

As an ill thought through random idea perhaps the Arab countries could put in place a peace keeping force and interim Government to stabilise the place and hopefully offer an alternative to a cycle of destruction.

However again I fear that such a peace keeping force would simply become the new target.

I think what’s important to remember is that there is horrific footage coming out of Gaza of newborn babies twitching as they die, children screaming for their parents who have just been killed, a mother trying to breastfeed her dead baby.

Horror is horror, and language matters; pressing a button to indiscriminately launch weapons that will kill beautiful kids, and blow apart their little limbs is no less barbaric than cutting off the heads of people; one side has weapon tech where they don’t have to get their hands dirty, is the only difference, and yes, using the mad, bad, savage Arab trope is part of the propaganda that we’re seeing, to dehumanise those who speak the same language as Hamas, who practice the same religion as Hamas, who look the same as members of Hamas.

Lets hope the truth will out through all the propaganda and lies.

And the bombing is relentless on civilian people

Palestinian workers in Israel taken at gunpoint day and night.
Read about the conditions.
Read about the numbers and note, this isn’t a new thing MNs, this has been going on for a long long time.

The murder and attempted murder of Israelis by Palestinians has also been going on for a long, long time. Rockets didn't just start two weeks ago