To think it’s turning into genocide in real time

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

Just seen this on the news- how can this be right? It genuinely is starting to feel like genocide.

What Hamas did was beyond appalling. But this is also beyond appalling too. Its trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Over 500 kids have already died. Human rights watch have verified that Israel uses white phosphorus against Gaza, which is a war crime.

And everyone is just watching it happen.

“The Israeli army has just ordered the entire civilian population of Gaza to evacuate south within 24 hours. The UN says that amounts to 1.1 million people& applies to 100s of 1000s sheltered in UN buildings & their staff. This is impossible without “devastating human consequences”
Leaving aside the international law implications, I cannot emphasise enough how impossible this kind of movement of people would be. I have spent a lot of time in Gaza it is one of the most densely populated places on earth, there are pretty much only 2 roads south - along the coast and down the centre - they aren’t wide or well paved. I spoke to the gaza health ministry yesterday who said every hospital was overflowing. How would the wounded and elderly be transported? There is a massive fuel shortage how would vehicles drive? There would be no where for 1.1 million to go even if they got there. Rafah crossing to Egypt is not operational because of Israeli airstrikes.”

This is how Genocide is classified;
U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide:

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

• Killing members of the group;

• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

• Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"

The actions of both Israel & Hamas fit this description too. It’s just fucking beyond terrible. And it feels like some world leaders are just cheering from the sidelines 😪

But can't you see that this cycle of violence and death needs to be ended. Sure there could be a ceasefire but it won't change the animosity and refusal to accept each side's right to exist

The cycle of violence will not be ended until some sort of justice is found. Both the Israeli and Palestinian people should share these lands, that has to come primarily from Israel as they are the powerful dominant culture. . Until some sort of fair idea is put forth, essentially the entire world security and everyons future is put on hold, while one side exterminates the other, and we wait and see if the world accepts that.

. Excuse me if I’ve got that wrong.

I personally think that you lose credibility if you are not even open to considering it.
Look at Operation Northwoods, it never went ahead but it could have if JFK had okayed it.

@Toothyfruity

"Do you accept that these people are living under apartheid though? If you don't then you're not an honest broker here."

++++

The Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank are most definitely not living under apartheid.

Apartheid was a system of institutionalised racism which existed in South Africa and has nothing to do with Gaza.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid

You could argue that Palestinians living in pre 1967 border suffer a form of apartheid by racial discrimination but definitely not those in Gaza which has its own Government Hamas. Unless of course Hamas were to operate a racial segregation policy.

Adopting historically charged words such as apartheid doesn't make it factually correct.

@Lonelycrab the Palestinian leadership and people need to agree to Israel's right to exist. Until that happens, they will, understandably, use that dominance for national security.

I give up. Can't cope with the Zion bots on this thread anymore.

You're watching and excusing ethnic cleansing and genocide of civilians in real time. Over 1500 CHILDREN have been killed in the last 2 weeks. Shame on you.

Also from wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_apartheid

The crime of apartheid is defined by the 2002 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court as inhumane acts of a character similar to other crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime".
On 30 November 1973, the United Nations General Assembly opened for signature and ratification The International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid.[1] It defined the crime of apartheid as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them".[2]

Nowhere have I claimed to be happy with the bombing and the civilian displacement, in fact I find it deeply distressing.

@Panaa

Look at Operation Northwoods, it never went ahead but it could have if JFK had okayed it.

+++

Look if Operations Northwoods was viewed as batshit crazy in 1962 then it definitely would be today.

Derailing tactics constantly changing the subject in the hope we get to page 40 before another hospital is blown up.
Then quick name change and repeat

It was the CIA who came up with it and obviously they didn't think it was batshit crazy. If there had been a different leader it could have went ahead!

@Panaa

Exactly and thank you for the further links.

Apartheid is an institutional system of racial segregation and discrimination within a state. The Israeli Government cannot be guilty of apartheid in Gaza or any other country only of apartheid in pre 1967 borders Israel.

The only party that could ever be guilty of apartheid in Gaza would be Hamas if they were to introduce institutional racial segregation and discrimination.

I recognise that the word apartheid is emotionally charged but that doesn't mean that its application here is correct.

the Palestinian leadership

the who?

Amnesty disagrees.

Cue posters telling me Amnesty are Hamas or Isis or some other shite 🙄

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/

the who?

I'd have specified Hamas but I doubt they'll be running Gaza after this. So who indeed.

Report by Amnesty international

If any kind MNs can attach the thread that would be great. I’m crap and haven’t mastered that yet.
These are just the first and last pages

The crime of apartheid doesn't have to be 'within a state'. You've just added that yourself.

It's completely incorrect to make out that only Hamas could be guilty of it within Gaza. If another power from outside is able to systematically oppress those inside a state then of course that can be apartheid.

understandably

remains to be seen really, how understandably.

how’s your world security feeling

maybe a large portion of the globe doesn’t agree

wait and see I guess.

all I his bollocks for my sky fairy is better than your sky fairy

human race: fucking idiots

its not like there might be one or two other pressing issues we have to deal with?

no let’s kill each other over essentially a bit of land.

humanity has failed, religion is an anvil.

good night

but I doubt they'll be running

What in the next Gaza elections? I’m sure they’ll be democratically and fairly held. And it won’t actually be a barren wasteland filled with corpses with no one in it , and there’ll be an election where the people can have their say, so let’s look forward to that together 😊

'Highway' has been 're-paved' according to Biden

Foreign passport holders may be able to leave a 8am BST

Egyptian special forces photographed at the border crossing

No new news re humanitarian aid

Earlier two lorries carrying aid have moved into position on the Egyptian side of the crossing

Egyptian TV showing humanitarian aid trucks moving into Gaza

At last

We can agree Israel has a right to defend itself.

Do the Palestinian have a right to have their own state free from occupation and subjugation?

I do mostly agree. But the west supported dictators in many third world countries as a backstop against communism spreading.

I think maybe the bigger issue is Kadyrov in Chechnya has been allowed to impose sharia-light there. That's clever, because it undercuts the usual source of support for jihadist groups. As that imam/Sheikh in 1785 showed, they usually combine imposing internal discipline and gaining legitimacy by enforcing sharia (therefore internal unity) with the external war against 'oppression'.

Being seen to be ruling internally in a highly devout way leaves your local young would-be jihadists with a weaker argument for overthrowing you for you failure to overthrow the oppression of non Muslim rule. Especially if it means taking on Russia again. There's some reality even among most devout would be martyrs.

The West can support Islamic states like the Gulf states because that's long been in place, they have the oil etc. To allow your own strongman to implement sharia is probably a little too direct for the average sheltered Western voter though.

The surrounding Arab states could surely put such a strongman into Gaza if Israel defeated the current groups. And they have some motivation to keep a lid on the conflict at least while the US retains some military power. Maybe it could work temporarily. Just thinking out loud though.

Yes they're incredibly sheltered. But also brainwashed into leftist worldviews through school and university throughout western countries, that's the narrative of course that they're fitting events into - the evil white settler colonialist state oppresses the hapless nonwhite natives. The youngest generations also have such serious rates of mental illness that they're easily whipped into frenzies.

I don't see how it changes given the dependence of western countries on oil, the petrodollar and therefore the Saudis. You can't possibly educate future voters in that context.

Observe long enough and you'll understand exactly what that's all about.