Part 2: Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result (

[pombear]

Hope you don't mind whytcvv just posting here as your thread reached the limit for posts

Posting your original OP here:- Ignore my previous thread-start as it didn't include important title"

whytcvv
When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Link to previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4508526-female-swimmers-beaten-by-transgender-athlete-stage-podium-protest-at-unfair-result

@whytcvv Sorry, bad form, forgot to '@ you as it's a new thread. If you don't want it to continue do let HQ know.

Safety and fairness in women’s sports or validation of male people’s feelings? Hmm it’s a really tough one. Oh wait, no it’s not. We need an open inclusive category for men, transwomen, trans men, people who declare themselves to be non binary and one category for female only.

It's ridiculous and really losing all sympathy for transgender people when you see things like this. Blatant cheating. Awful. The poor girls who have to change with him as well.

What makes me feel some hope is that LT’s example is now shining on light on something that was previously not able to be spoken about because “transphobic”.

Thank you for continuing this as it's such an important issue.

It goes beyond elite sport right down to grass roots and I'm passionate about it because we've had to wait the other way for my son to be able to compete fairly - by getting a disability classification. He's also a swimmer.

There is no doubt that biologically and scientifically the differences exist between males and females. This is based on their biological sex and whatever their feelings of the social construct of gender this doesn't change.

Lia Thomas can have their own thoughts and feelings on their identity. This should be allowed and society should accept how people want to dress and present and be referred to. (although I do think it's betting very OTT!).

But they shouldn't be allowed to compete as a woman in a woman's sex based category because biologically they are not female sex. They just aren't. No amount of discussion or personal feelings will ever change this scientific fact.

Well done (new)OP for adding voting

Is there a link to the podium protest at all?
I agree that Lia Thomas should not be competing against women and should be known as Cheaty Mccheaty Pants from this point on

I watched a youtube video of this and even though the vast majority of the comments were rightly calling bullshit, it was depressing how many men were laughing and saying 'well this is what women get for feminism blah blah, .

Yet again blaming women for men's behaviour.

The infuriating thing is - its absolutely bloody obvious CMP (great name) shouldn't be allowed to compete. So why is he? How on Earth have we got to this.

Also, apparently Lia(r) Thomas walks around the changing room with 'their' dick hanging out. So that's nice .

Changeee15467
What makes me feel some hope is that LT’s example is now shining on light on something that was previously not able to be spoken about because “transphobic”

That's an interesting comment - the moment you're able to name the problem and provide a tangible, visual issue, it can free you from feeling like you're going to be tarred with that 'transphobic' label.

And realise that the word 'transphobic' is currently used and abused in a much wider controlling and coercive context to women than a specific accusation of 'you hate trans people'.

I don't know if you're new to this issue, but many women were trying to implement the 'be kind' activity that we're all socially conditioned to deploy, and many of those same women who are now speaking out to protect women's rights in this issue are liberal/left/supportive of rights in general in society,.

Once you see the problem, the accusation of 'transphobic' melts away.

I didn't mention this on the last thread but my autistic daughter is a county cricketer.

She has been the only girl on her team since she was 5. She is not the best player on the team but she is the only player to be selected to train and play with the county because boys are stronger than girls.

Self ID would allow approximately 50% of her club team to displace her on the county team.

That's not fair.

Watching her team train each week is a delight to see. Girls enjoying sport and being happy and healthy.

Women's cricket is starting to take off with events like the 100 the quicker formats like 20/20.

Women and girls deserve to have their own competition and their own high level. Putting one single male in the mix would displace all of those girls.

Sorry that should say is the only girl on her club team.

The physical differences between men and women mean that it is completely unfair for men to compete against women, regardless of how they choose to present.

Thomas was ranked 554th in the 200m freestyle when he competed against men. Now he strolls to victory. He is a cheat.

I think he is a cheat. 8 think this is the beginning of the end for women's sports. He will be swimming against our British female swimmers in the next Olympics.
I feel sorry for a friend's daughter who gets up at 5am to train for swimming.
When will this stop?
I am happy for Lia to be himself but how can he morally and ethically do this. Also being an exhibitionist in the changing rooms. His team mates have been forced to accept him on the team and in their changing space disrespecting their privacy and dignity and apparently he doesn't know how to put a towel around his waist and narrow hips so they are all be exposed to his penis without consent.
I'm am raging and I don't even do sports.

I keep thinking of the Dave Chapelle quote about this topic - 'to what extent should I be compelled to participate in your self image?'

To what extent should everybody else be required to make sacrifices and accommodations for one small group of people, in spite of the damage it is doing?
What about everyone else's feelings? Why are trans feelings the only ones taken into consideration? What about the feelings of the women in that race? Don't they matter?

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

The physical differences between men and women mean that it is completely unfair for men to compete against women, regardless of how they choose to present.

Thomas was ranked 554th in the 200m freestyle when he competed against men. Now he strolls to victory. He is a cheat.

Exactly and the lowering of testosterone is a joke. Even when he gets to his lower limit it will still be in the range of a man.

Image didn't post.

The other thing that always gets me about the 'inclusion in sport' discussion is the argument that trans athletes will somehow be denied the right to compete, unless women move over and make room for them, and how this is so unfair.

Eh, no - they can compete in their correct sex category, they just don't want to.

What about the feelings of the women in that race?
Or the poor woman who wasn't in the race to make way for LT.

There's just no way to defend LT's presence in women's sports that doesn't make the defender sound as big a dick as LT is.

Every attempt I've heard just makes the speaker sound like an idiot.

CMCP is a great name. @Ghislainedefeligonde !

lifeturnsonadime

Self ID would allow approximately 50% of her club team to displace her on the county team.
Watching her team train each week is a delight to see. Girls enjoying sport and being happy and healthy.

I wish there was a hug emoji on this site, but will have to do!

I'm a swimmer. National as a kid, and now international as a master. For ten years I trained 10 - 15 hours per week. For the next twenty and now I train 5 hours per week, couple of years off for pregnancy/babies. My exhusband, who swam once a year on holiday, and barely as a child, can beat me at anything less than 100m.

It is absolutely and utterly farcical and I have literally no idea how it is being allowed.

YANBU at all.
I sincerely hope that this shines light on the way women are being sacrificed for the sake of a few men’s validation.

Is it true that he's still got a penis and is allowed in the girls changing rooms with them?