Page 4 | Part 2: Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result (

flyawaytrampoline · 19/03/2022 23:14

Sharron Davies posted something interesting on her Twitter feed earlier in the week - apparently even with the required testosterone reduction, Lia Thomas' testosterone levels are still multiple times higher than would be allowed for a woman (i.e. at which point the woman would be banned from competing). Made me wonder what would happen if the female swimmers asked to use testosterone to match that of LT?? I'm not for one moment thinking they would - but hypothetically how could the governing bodies justify banning female swimmers for artificially high testosterone levels, given LT is OK to compete?

BoreOfWhabylon · 19/03/2022 23:31

As I said in the last thread, if Lia Thomas competes in the 2024 Olympics it will peak the whole world.

Bring. It. On.

Meandmini3 · 19/03/2022 23:35

I just don’t get it. Where is this person’s sense of shame? Where is the glory in stealing medals off females? It’s bizarre. There must be some mental gymnastics going on there for a male to feel that they are winning by competing against females. The male swim team must be laughing, right?

BornBlonde · 19/03/2022 23:36

I hope this shines a light to the many people who seem unaware men are infiltrating women's sports. But I just feel so angry for the girls & women directly suffering from it

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 19/03/2022 23:49

@Meandmini3

I just don’t get it. Where is this person’s sense of shame? Where is the glory in stealing medals off females? It’s bizarre. There must be some mental gymnastics going on there for a male to feel that they are winning by competing against females. The male swim team must be laughing, right?

The male swim team are probably furious.

A less talented, less hardworking fellow male athlete is being rewarded for times that are objectively poorer than theirs.

Would you, as the gold medallist on the male team, like being expected to treat Thomas as an athletic equal to you, or equal to the men's silver medallist (who has a time better than Thomas's)?

DeeCeeCherry · 19/03/2022 23:55

I want Transwomen to compete in The Olympics.

Let the whole world see

DreamTheMoors · 20/03/2022 00:09

My friend was over and we spoke of this.
Thomas had been interviewed on tv. She looks masculine. She sounds like a man. She went through puberty as a boy/man. She presents physically as a man.
The dilemma my friend and I had was/is is that we have always been very supportive of the trans community and we felt uncomfortable singling out Thomas.
Were we being unfair? Were we being unreasonable? Hateful? Narrow-minded?
No, no, no and no.
Thomas is taking unfair advantage in a sport [she] obviously has biological advantage over [her] competitors and in this instance we are right to be angry and speaking out.
This is entirely unacceptable.
Lia Thomas knows it.
It does not make us any less uncomfortable.

BoreOfWhabylon · 20/03/2022 00:10

Interesting article and radio interview of Sharron Davies by Andrew Castle

www.lbc.co.uk/news/female-swimmers-transgender-lia-thomas-podium-protest-atlanta-result/

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 20/03/2022 00:15

@DeeCeeCherry

I want Transwomen to compete in The Olympics.

Let the whole world see

Already happened in archery and olympic weightlifting.

Far fewer people cared than I expected.

nolongersurprised · 20/03/2022 02:36

Already happened in archery and olympic weightlifting

Swimming is a more popular sport and I’m hoping that Lia will introduce a few more parents to the injustices that are occurring with women’s and girls’ sport.

I’m hoping that because of Lia there are “swimming parents” who have spent years getting up at 430, spending fortunes on race suits, wasted whole days at swim meets where their daughter swims 4 events over a six hour day and who have gone to endless club events, BBQing sausages, organising raffles, and time keeping.

I’m hoping they look at Lia and think WTF and then I’m hoping they talk about it and in doing so feel brace enough to disagree that TWAW

nolongersurprised · 20/03/2022 02:36

*brave, not brace. Though brace is probably apt

RachelGreeneGreep · 20/03/2022 04:33

[quote KittyLeMew]YANBU!

The podium pics said it all.

As does this experience shared by the mother of a female swimmer detailing the impact on these women and the enforced silence around it:

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/a-mothers-defiance?s=r[/quote]
I listened to this earlier and have now read the text. So powerful to hear and read the lived experience.

Words fail me. This is like some horrible nightmare. I cannot begin to imagine how those women feel, standing on the podium, deprived of their rightful places.

I can only hope that this 'win' does spur enough shock and reaction to make positive change,

Norma27 · 20/03/2022 06:40

The bbc didn’t show Hubbard in the weightlifting. I doubt they would be able to not show the swimming though if liar was to qualify. The swimming is so much more popular an event to watch than weightlifting or archery.

itsgettingweird · 20/03/2022 07:09

@nolongersurprised

Already happened in archery and olympic weightlifting

Swimming is a more popular sport and I’m hoping that Lia will introduce a few more parents to the injustices that are occurring with women’s and girls’ sport.

I’m hoping that because of Lia there are “swimming parents” who have spent years getting up at 430, spending fortunes on race suits, wasted whole days at swim meets where their daughter swims 4 events over a six hour day and who have gone to endless club events, BBQing sausages, organising raffles, and time keeping.

I’m hoping they look at Lia and think WTF and then I’m hoping they talk about it and in doing so feel brace enough to disagree that TWAW

Absolutely agree with this.

It's Sunday. I was up at 5am. Dropped ds off at 6am for 3 hours of training.

He's male. He's disabled.

He trains with able bodied swimmers and also alongside the national squad at times.

He's recently trained at the swim england national event at camp with 4 other para swimmers and they trained with 45 able bodies swimmers. This was and is a trial for inclusion.

The honest truth is that only the top junior para swimmers can and will be able to included in this way. That's due to those biological differences their bodies have.

He trains 16 hours in the pool and 3 in the gym every week.

To think that swimmers do this and then someone can just come along with a claim against a social construct that has NOTHING in fact to do with science and biology is totally devastatingly scary.

They only relief I have from this is that ds is male and so it won't affect him. But I'm watching 12/13/14yo girls with talent - who are top 3/4 nationally and thinking - "what does your future hold for a talented swimmer who's giving 15 hours a week to training?"

I dread to think what they must be thinking?

WanderinWomb · 20/03/2022 07:18

I may have missed this , apologies of repeating. A lot of people keep saying to women shouldn't compete, just freeze and let LT swim alone. As tempting as that is to imagine , he has beaten Olympic medallists , those women cannot boycott races or not move, as every race counts and personal bests are very important to them .
Hopefully one day his times will be removed from the women's records and proper records will stand.

spacehardware · 20/03/2022 07:28

It's not just that every race counts and the need to maintain / improve their personal bests (although that is important) - this is college sports. At this elite level funding of their college education is contingent on continuing to make the cut in these events. If they refuse to take part they could lose everything.

itsgettingweird · 20/03/2022 07:36

@spacehardware

It's not just that every race counts and the need to maintain / improve their personal bests (although that is important) - this is college sports. At this elite level funding of their college education is contingent on continuing to make the cut in these events. If they refuse to take part they could lose everything.

This. Every college scholarship swimmer is having to re,aim silent about an issue that effects the, to be able to continue in their sport they've hard at for years.

But at the same time knowing that if LT races at the Olympics they can't win gold anyway.

NotTerfNorCis · 20/03/2022 07:50

It really underscores the fact that no matter what is in people's heads, biological sex is what matters and is what makes people women or men.

Glittertwins · 20/03/2022 08:04

@nolongersurprised

Already happened in archery and olympic weightlifting

Swimming is a more popular sport and I’m hoping that Lia will introduce a few more parents to the injustices that are occurring with women’s and girls’ sport.

I’m hoping that because of Lia there are “swimming parents” who have spent years getting up at 430, spending fortunes on race suits, wasted whole days at swim meets where their daughter swims 4 events over a six hour day and who have gone to endless club events, BBQing sausages, organising raffles, and time keeping.

I’m hoping they look at Lia and think WTF and then I’m hoping they talk about it and in doing so feel brace enough to disagree that TWAW

Hear hear. I'm up at those times for DD and DS (although he is unaffected) too. Haven't come across any parents at our club who is pro this situation

lifeturnsonadime · 20/03/2022 08:05

What I was going to post on the other thread before it was removed.

Except the forum is getting overrun again, and I'm sick of seeing the same old boring threads with the same people banging the same drum. There's a reason you were put into a hidden sub forum.

There are plenty of dog threads on here and they don't all get put in the dog house.

Why are you so keen to shut women up?

No, we've had enough. If you ask us to believe that Thomas is a woman then you are asking us to tell lies that harm us. These lies are bad enough in sport but they also lead to women being physically harmed and raped when they are at their most vulnerable

No thank you. Enough is enough.

Sophoclesthefox · 20/03/2022 08:06

I feel so terrible for these college women. Forced to comply with this horrible lie, having their achievements trampled over and not able to protest. They have been told in no uncertain terms by their colleges what will happen if they dare to speak out.

It’s up to all of us to do it for them. They have enough to cope with just now.

Bananarama21 · 20/03/2022 08:07

They should do a separate category, the strength and power alone means they have an unfair advantage, especially if they were to do butterfly, they are trying to be too politically correct but being unfair to the other women.

MzHz · 20/03/2022 08:10

@NotTerfNorCis

It really underscores the fact that no matter what is in people's heads, biological sex is what matters and is what makes people women or men.

Simple but true

Hasselhoffsheadband · 20/03/2022 08:10

@BoreOfWhabylon

As I said in the last thread, if Lia Thomas competes in the 2024 Olympics it will peak the whole world.

Bring. It. On.

Yep.

And if Lia touches any of Missy Franklin or Katie Ledecky's records I think that will cause outrage as well, as the idea of a woman's record bring erased forever by a male is pretty horrendous.

maddening · 20/03/2022 08:24

There are some great authors on the subject for newcomers to the debate - Trans by Helen Joyce is one example, there are plenty of good Helen Joyce interviews on you tube