Part 2: Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result (

[pombear]

Hope you don't mind whytcvv just posting here as your thread reached the limit for posts

Posting your original OP here:- Ignore my previous thread-start as it didn't include important title"

whytcvv
When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Link to previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4508526-female-swimmers-beaten-by-transgender-athlete-stage-podium-protest-at-unfair-result

I have been indescribably proud of every single achievement of each of my girls, now women and boys, now men. Even when they came last they did their best.

How on earth can Lia Thomas’s parents be proud now?

He is a cheat and an exhibitionist who is getting a perverse kick from all the attention and making his team mates feel uncomfortable when he walks around the changing rooms with his dick out!
The whole thing is utterly ridiculous. How has he got more rights than women??? No man should compete in womens sports, if they do then unfortunately that will be the end of womens sports. No man should be in a womens safe space, if they allow this women will never feel safe outside of their homes.
I just despair.

I am happy to say that my Facebook is awash with people congratulating Emma on her win….silver is the new gold.

Can one of you people who is trying to claim that we are all bigots who hate trans people and want to ban them please answer this?

You know there are only two sexes. You know fine well how to tell one from the other and you know fine well what the male athletic advantage is. You know it and we know you know it, and you know we know you know it. And you know trans people are welcome to compete in their correct sex class.

So...why?

What exactly are you trying to achieve with this mass lie that you know is a lie?

Do you think it's the next step in LGBT rights and it makes you progressive? But how do you square that with trampling over women's equal opportunities?

You know you're talking nonsense and that we are right and that Lia et al do not belong there. You know an identity isn't a sexed body. So what are you trying to do?

@ReeseWitherfork

It seems Erica Sullivan (who came third) has been very vocal in her support for LT. I'm a bit baffled by this. I wonder if she'd feel the same if she had been the unlucky woman who missing out on a spot.

I wondered if Erica Sullivan would have been quite so supportive if LT had denied her a place on the US’s Tokyo Olympics team (Sullivan took silver in the women’s 1500m free, first time that event has been in the Olympics for women).

What sort of progressiveness creates a world e
where it becomes absolutely fine for male people to take women's sporting and professional opportunities, break their skulls, expose themselves in their changing rooms, police their language, threaten them online with rape and death, and claim womanhood for themselves?

That's exactly what happens when you try to push the absurdity that transwomen are women. Why, like Simon Fanshawe OBE, can you not say that women are women and transwomen are transwomen, and respect them for that? As he says, his fight for gay rights didn't mean fighting to be called straight.

How many lost opportunities for women, broken bones and silenced voices do you think are worth it just so that transwomen will never have to confront any situation that exposes the fact that they aren't female? And I don't like periods and menopause, so why aren't you engineering arguments to pretend for me that those aren't real either?

Let’s not forget the many, many hundreds of thousands of women (going by polls it’ll be millions) across this country, many of whom come to the board here and say ‘I know this is wrong, I know this is a lie, I know I and my daughters will be harmed by this, but I can’t talk about this at work because I’d be fired.’ Those young women are feeling that pressure and coercion a thousand-fold.

Several years ago I was at a European indoor rowing competition and a transwomen (I'll call her Mel) was competing in one of the categories and I thought it was amazing, Mel was in their 60's and competing against women in their 20's and 30's including women who were in the armed services (both UK and other nations) I couldn't really understand why the service men were so against Mel competing, I thought what was the harm?

The harm was Mel won by a landslide against women less then half their age, their male biology gave them an unstoppable advantage against women at the height of the physical fitness the results of the the women in 2-4th were incredibly close, from thinking it was a nice thing for Mel to compete to seeing the end result totally changed my view and I think this situation will for many people.

I felt heartbroken for the women who had trained so hard and never had a chance, same as for the swimmers here

I was a para athlete and we have so many sporting categories to ensure fairness, by allowing biological males to compete in the female category makes a mockery of sport and you never see transmen as elite athletes because their biological disadvantage remain with them.

People should live their lives the way they want to as long as they are not hurting anyone and unfortunately competing in womens sports when you are a biological male does hurt people, when I was competing I couldn't compete in some disability categories because I didn't fit the classification and this should be the same situation

I doubt anything will come of our disdain. Which is a shame. You honestly think the American swimming association NCAA are suddenly going to wake up today and say : of course you are all right.

@arethereanyleftatall

Someone shared this photo on the other thread, I think it's worth a copy and paste...this is our mixed relay team in the 2020 games...

That photo is a bit misleading as Peaty and Guy are standing on the raised end of the pool deck, whereas Kathleen Dawson isn’t (so she looks shorter).

This one is better, as they are all standing on the same level and it includes Anna Hopkin.

Congratulations to first place Emma Weyant and congratulations to second place Erica Sullivan.

Shame on the sad inadequate man who took their rightful places. I hope your name goes down in history only as the undeserving Liar that you are.

I hope he is worried when he realises how many people 'believe' in him in public only, because in this brief blip of stupidity, they have to.

This period of time will go down in history books as one of the biggest and most shameful embarrassments of all time.

@purpleme12

Is it true that he's still got a penis and is allowed in the girls changing rooms with them?

Yes, and they were told to shut up when they expressed their discomfort. Lia is, incidentally, attracted to women. Nor is Lia unusual for retaining intact male genitalia. Well over 90% of transwomen do.

It's a lot of major surgery with huge implications, so I don't think keeping one's genitalia means a person can't be trans, but it sure as heck means you don't belong in a female changing room. Yes, that means having to consider the relationship between one's body and one's choices. Welcome to the exclusively female experience of deciding whether to try to conceive. Biological reality isn't prejudice.

Also think about this for a minute:

What kind of ‘progressive’ society are we living in that women and men live in fear of being fired for voicing ACTUAL FACT and BIOLOGICAL TRUTH??

This is wrong. Full stop. It’s wrong on many levels and without exception. There is an overriding principle here, more important than everything else - you do not get to silence me. You do not get to compel my speech. You do not speak truth, you speak LIES. I will speak truth. Let’s see if you think you can put us all in prison. Let’s see if you can intimidate me by ‘checking my thinking’.

What kind of society do we live in where a woman is raped on a hospital ward, and the hospital LIES to the police, ‘oh no, there were no men here so that couldn’t have happened’. A YEAR it took for them to admit that actually, oh there was a penis person on that ward. Did you know that NHS workers are told straight out to LIE to a woman’s face and say, no there are no men here, if she complains about males being on the ward?

Anna Hopkin is really petite for such a good swimmer. I have a photo of her with my DS, who's not exactly tall and she's barely taller.

exLtEveDallas

Really enjoyed hearing about the pub conversation. Hopefully it'll get more people talking.
It shows he is a true sportsman and and knows what's what.
I have a feeling if more men in sport speak up and push back, it might put an end to this nonsense. Sadly, more people listen to men.

But we'll all keep speaking up defending women's rights.

Even if a male does have surgery on his penis, that does not make that individual a female. Penis people do not belong in female spaces.

Poll is currently 100% YANBU. Just shows when these threads remain in mainstream sections, the general public do not believe TWAW, and definitely don’t want males competing against women.
Liar is peaking the world.

sport is sexed its about physiology not feelings, there is no argument for inclusion of male bodied people in female sports.

YANBU.

One great sportsman who speaks out is Daley Thompson. A true champion and gentleman. A few male and female sports people have spoken out over this on twitter now I believe. Twitter hates women speaking biological truth though so I am permanently suspended from there. Along with countless other women.

@Norma27 this is the same for every poll relating to men in women’s spaces. Millions of women are against it. It’s usually around 90% against, and that’s across the board including places like Scotland where the government has apologised for burning witches yet thinks it’s just fine to actively seek and in fact legislate to harm women now.

@Glittertwins

Anna Hopkin is really petite for such a good swimmer. I have a photo of her with my DS, who's not exactly tall and she's barely taller.

She’s about the same height as Hannah Miley (5’5”).

@Nnique

Even if a male does have surgery on his penis, that does not make that individual a female. Penis people do not belong in female spaces.

I do see that. I suppose, in the sense of someone who has completed a full transition as far as possible (given that you can't actually change sex) and obtained a GRC under full medical and legal supervision, I'm not so bothered about changing rooms. Still wouldn't belong in women's sport, though.

Male bodied people are already in female prisons, on female wards, in rape crisis centres/shelters/on female shortlists for awards and prizes/ in toilets in schools/universities/workplaces (think for a minute about what that actually means for girls and young women).

I would consider myself pretty open minded on the wider trans debate but watching mediocre men absolutely smashing elite women is just bad entertainment

@DrSbaitso you might not be bothered. As it happens I’m not personally bothered either. But the vast, vast majority of women are. And even if it were only a the ‘small’ (HA!) number that have been raped, assaulted and subject to male violence who objected, they have the right to privacy dignity and safety. That safety is not ours to give away.