Page 2 | Part 2: Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result (

KittyLeMew · 19/03/2022 21:27

YANBU!

The podium pics said it all.

As does this experience shared by the mother of a female swimmer detailing the impact on these women and the enforced silence around it:

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/a-mothers-defiance?s=r

GoodWeatherforDucks · 19/03/2022 21:29

So glad I could come to Mumsnet and share some of the astonishment and dismay I’ve been feeling about Lia Thomas being allowed to compete against biological women. I’m new to all of this, but 24 hours of frantically reading everything I could find on both sides of the debate has really opened my eyes. I have come to the conclusion that transwomen competing in womens’ sports is a travesty and is not fair. I am going to be talking to everyone I know about it.

OutsideVoice · 19/03/2022 21:29

@purpleme12

Is it true that he's still got a penis and is allowed in the girls changing rooms with them?

Yes he has a penis, and carefully worded reports suggest he is most definitely heterosexual.

Glittertwins · 19/03/2022 21:31

@purpleme12

Is it true that he's still got a penis and is allowed in the girls changing rooms with them?

Yes and yes

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 19/03/2022 21:35

Well done for continuing the discussion. It's ridiculous that women and girls are having their sports threatened and dominated by men. Men who were too crap at the sport as a man so has to compete against women. They're nothing but cheats. They should be embarrassed by themselves.

Original poster

pombear · 19/03/2022 21:35

GoodWeatherforDucks
It's a shocker, isn't it, when you're new to it. Many of us have been there before. You may want to have a bit of a visit over to what's called FWR on Mumsnet, as this extends much wider than just sports.

Single-sex wards in hospitals. Women's refuges to help those escaping from domestic abuse. Young girls finding puberty difficult in the current climate. Adult males falling into a rabbit hole of porn and deciding to identify as women as a result.

If you want to read more: - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

OP posts:

Brefugee · 19/03/2022 21:40

Maybe we should just abolish all sex categories and have all sports as "open" categories? Sure most women won't win anything, but we will be reminded why we have sex categories in the first place?

Hotzenplotz · 19/03/2022 21:40

It's disgusting.

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 19/03/2022 21:40

@Ghislainedefeligonde

Is there a link to the podium protest at all? I agree that Lia Thomas should not be competing against women and should be known as Cheaty Mccheaty Pants from this point on

This is a photo from the podium

Part 2: Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result (

Original poster

pombear · 19/03/2022 21:42

Brefugee
Maybe we should just abolish all sex categories and have all sports as "open" categories? Sure most women won't win anything, but we will be reminded why we have sex categories in the first place?

We could, or we could fight damn hard for the categories currently in place, because the majority of us know why those categories are there?

OP posts:

ISpyCobraKai · 19/03/2022 21:43

@Brefugee

Maybe we should just abolish all sex categories and have all sports as "open" categories? Sure most women won't win anything, but we will be reminded why we have sex categories in the first place?

Or go back in time and be trampled on as after all we're only women. I think not.

CaveMum · 19/03/2022 21:43

The thing is the knock on effects of allowing men into women’s sport will not be easy to reverse. As girls start to see places being given to males they will think “why bother?” and start to drop out of training, this will mean a generation will lose the opportunity to compete at higher levels; we will have fewer women available for elite competition; the positives of events like the Olympics inspiring young girls into sport will be lost and it will take a huge amount of work to encourage girls back into sport again.

CaveMum · 19/03/2022 21:46

It’s been said many times, there is no need for a third category, two works perfectly well:

Open - all men, transwomen and transmen taking testosterone
Women - women and transmen who have never taken testosterone

Simples.

MrsAvocet · 19/03/2022 21:48

I coach a sport at grassroots level. We have a major issue with the low participation of girls and women and like many clubs ours works very hard to get more females involved. Seeing biological males atop podiums in female sport is like a slap in the face to ua all. I've already considered quitting due to the policies of our national governing body on this matter, but there is no real alternative organisation to move to and if all the women coaches give up it will be even more impossible for girls to progress.
I really hope that reporting of this, and similar events will wake people up to what is happening to women's sport and that people will start to speak out. Last year my son got accused of transphobia at school - by his peers rather than staff - when he supported a girl in his class who said she was unwilling to compete in her sport against male bodied opponents. Later, quite a few of classmates told them privately that they agreed, but were afraid to say so in public. This nonsense has to stop.

GoodWeatherforDucks · 19/03/2022 21:51

@pombear
Thanks for the link. More reading to be done…

Nnique · 19/03/2022 21:51

[quote KittyLeMew]YANBU!

The podium pics said it all.

As does this experience shared by the mother of a female swimmer detailing the impact on these women and the enforced silence around it:

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/a-mothers-defiance?s=r[/quote]
Thank you for the link, I’ve been meaning to track it down and post as it’s such an important and powerful piece.

Can I caution posters, be aware that you must be mindful what language you use. Try not to use the ‘wrong’ pronoun when referring to specific individuals. For the purposes of this discussion you are required by the guidelines to say things like “her penis’ or ‘a male’ (best to stay away from the other m word, it’s a bit of a no-no) or ‘this person’. Otherwise you are likely to have your comments deleted. Such are the roolz.

It can be quite galling to have your commented deleted, which then (completely falsely) implies that you have said something offensive rather than just using actual, accurate words to reflect actual, accurate reality, and I’d hate for you to feel as if your voice is being silenced.

It takes a little time to get used to it but it’s a tightrope we have to walk for now.

‘Penis person’, as I think I said on the last thread, is quite a good descriptor and can be considered equivalent to terms like ‘uterus haver/person with a vulva/bleeder/menstruator/chest feeder’ and so on.

nolongersurprised · 19/03/2022 21:55

This is important, and needs to stay in AIBU because every single mother who has a daughter who plays sports is impacted by this.

One of my daughters swims competitively, we live in a part of Australia that produces a disproportionate number of Olympians. She’s pretty good but will never be an Olympian. She swims 3km 6 times a week at 14, she cares about it.

Her main focus is making the school swimming team (beating her closest swimming friend/rival and competing in the inter school competition.

This isn’t important to anyone else but for my daughter and her friends, who get up at 430 5 mornings a week, go to bed early so they can get up early, organise their homework so they can facilitate their training it’s a big deal.

She and her friends are faster than any boy who doesn’t train. But if 3 14 year old boys who had done some form of swimming training decided to compete against them, they’d all lose, and comprehensively. I posted on the last thread how the state qualifying times is 4 sets faster for 15 year old boys than girls in the 100m free. (58.2 for boys, 102.5 for girls). 4 seconds is a lifetime in swimming.

Unless people protest this at every level, this is the beginning of the end for women’s and girls’ sports. And while schoolgirl sport matters not at all to pretty much everyone, it matters to them.

Original poster

pombear · 19/03/2022 21:56

MsAvocet

Firstly, kudos to you, coaching is such a fantastic thing for so many kids and much needed. And I'm sorry to hear you're thinking of quitting.

It feels like there's a boiling kettle effect right now, and once the bubbles start rising to the top hopefully other women will start to feel they can speak out. It only takes a few to lead the charge.

Last year my son got accused of transphobia at school - by his peers rather than staff - when he supported a girl in his class who said she was unwilling to compete in her sport against male bodied opponents. Later, quite a few of classmates told them privately that they agreed, but were afraid to say so in public. This nonsense has to stop

That's fantastic that your son supported his classmate, and it's crap to hear he was policed by his peers.

It's a suffocating environment right now. The more people, parents, teachers, any one, who says 'no, this isn't right' will potentially give courage to others to also say no and support your son in his courage.

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Original poster

pombear · 19/03/2022 21:58

nolongersurprised

Yet again, a virtual hug would be more appropriate but in the absence of that...

OP posts:

exLtEveDallas · 19/03/2022 22:01

I’ve gone ‘out out’ tonight and as always, my extrovert DH ended up speaking to randoms in the pub. Turned out a chap he was speaking to was a senior rugby player, mildly famous (people asking him for selfies). Completely unprompted he started ranting about Lia Thomas… it was beautiful. This absolute hulk of a man (and his wife) both absolutely spitting tacks about unfairness, cheating, the end of womens sports and so on.

I’ve never met another Terf in the wild and to hear him talk, the rest of his team feel exactly the same. Of course I had to ask him how he felt about Kelly Morgan… and he used a word that I can’t bring myself to type 😂

By the time we left there was an 8 person table all drunkenly raging about it, and for once it wasn’t my fault. Honestly, after being quite depressed about all this and how relentless it seems, tonight has given me hope.
(And I did point out that more people in the public eye need to speak out…I think he got me).

Original poster

pombear · 19/03/2022 22:06

exLtEveDallas

Thank you for sharing that!

Let's keep that hope alive and I love the phrase 'spitting tacks' - haven't heard that in ages.

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SantaCarlaCalifornia · 19/03/2022 22:06

@GoodWeatherforDucks

So glad I could come to Mumsnet and share some of the astonishment and dismay I’ve been feeling about Lia Thomas being allowed to compete against biological women. I’m new to all of this, but 24 hours of frantically reading everything I could find on both sides of the debate has really opened my eyes. I have come to the conclusion that transwomen competing in womens’ sports is a travesty and is not fair. I am going to be talking to everyone I know about it.

You should absolutely talk about it to people you know about this, but be careful. People you might have thought of as reasonably intelligent will not see what is going on right in front of their eyes and will call you all the names under the sun. Make sure you read up about everything so that you can make your point backed up with facts because they will try and dazzle you with 'be kind'. (and when that doesn't work they may well call you transphobic, homophobic, nazi, among others.)

For some reason this subject makes people lose their minds.

Bellagio40 · 19/03/2022 22:07

Those poor girls he competes against can’t even protest by not swimming because they will lose their college scholarships

purpleme12 · 19/03/2022 22:08

Yes I feel I don't have enough knowledge to back myself up with this kind of stuff
But I agree with you all

arethereanyleftatall · 19/03/2022 22:09

@exLtEveDallas

I’ve gone ‘out out’ tonight and as always, my extrovert DH ended up speaking to randoms in the pub. Turned out a chap he was speaking to was a senior rugby player, mildly famous (people asking him for selfies). Completely unprompted he started ranting about Lia Thomas… it was beautiful. This absolute hulk of a man (and his wife) both absolutely spitting tacks about unfairness, cheating, the end of womens sports and so on.

I’ve never met another Terf in the wild and to hear him talk, the rest of his team feel exactly the same. Of course I had to ask him how he felt about Kelly Morgan… and he used a word that I can’t bring myself to type 😂

By the time we left there was an 8 person table all drunkenly raging about it, and for once it wasn’t my fault. Honestly, after being quite depressed about all this and how relentless it seems, tonight has given me hope.
(And I did point out that more people in the public eye need to speak out…I think he got me).

I think this might be the key to it, sexist as it may be. Once men start speaking out about it, key men in sport, if they make a stand, then something might be done.