You just cannot talk about Palestine on this forum

[Faffandahalf]

Why has the last thread been taken down with a ‘goady op’ message?
What’s so goady about asking why we can’t criticise the actions of Israel?
Don’t even give a shit this is a TAAT and will get zapped.

Palestine exists. Ethnic cleansing is happening. And every single thread gets taken down.

Only one person on that thread shouted anti semitism. Every one else was mostly in agreement about what is happening and it still gets zapped.

I’ll once again direct people to friends of al Aqsa on Instagram and Twitter in the hopes people see this and would like some real information.

Israel is an occupying oppressor committing genocide and the Palestinians are an oppressed people. There is no comparison in the force power and might of these two groups esp when one has the backing and funding of the US.

Seriously pissed at MN for refusing to allow truths to be told about the situation

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4241811-Palestine-and-Israel-threads-constantly-removed?msgid=107348842#107348842

Please come do show your support on this thread to ask mumsnet to clarify exact talk boundaries on the subject so that no future threads would be deleted without clear reasons. And on our part, we can encourage a style that won’t lead to breaking of those talk guidelines.

I don’t think guidelines should be down to who is getting offended because as we have seen on this thread, catastrophising and throwing accusations are just ways to shut down debate and is traspassing on the rights of others.

There needs to be clear objective guidelines based on objective morals on this topic. So that more threads like this can take place so that there is more awareness

AnnieLofriar
Which government controls Gaza? The Israeli one?

That would be the one with the power to cut off their water, fuel, electricity, medicine and food at will, yes.

That the Israeli government are not officially the government of that people does not make the least difference to their control of them. If someone had the power to take away your water, fuel, electricity, medicine and food, I imagine you would probably be well aware they were controlling you.

Don't be provoked......remain calm. And let’s just use our intellect to help them expose their fascism

Exactly. They have been trying to provoke throughout thread with random accusations of anti semitism and alignment to Hamas. Ignore it - it's the last refuge place of stupid people to insult you.

The Israeli Government has undertaken illegal evictions, bombed a refugee camp, a Press Tower, and incited a civil war. Their vocabulary is hostile and aggressive. They have got the Palestinian people in a ghetto already and seem hell bent on eradicating them.

My father and many fathers and grandparents of posters on Mumsnet fought in WW2 to prevent the slaughter of human beings at the hands of the Nazis. Many of our fathers and grandfathers lost their lives in that war.
I guarantee my father and others would be turning in his grave if he saw what is happening today at the hands of the Israeli Government.

Israel maintains direct external control over Gaza and indirect control over life within Gaza: it controls Gaza's air and maritime space, and six of Gaza's seven land crossings. It reserves the right to enter Gaza at will with its military and maintains a no-go buffer zone within the Gaza territory.

Have some imagination how you would feel living like this, how your children would feel.

I listened to the news where one Palestinian was talking on R4 when you could hear a missile come down nearby. You heard his poor son scream in terror and he had to stop and calm him. Bloody horrific. I’ve never heard a child cry like that in real life. I cried the rest of the way to work.

How come you can’t immagine how it feels to not have any safety to go to when the Israelis start bombing and shooting then?

*Don't be provoked......remain calm. And let’s just use our intellect to help them expose their fascism

Exactly. They have been trying to provoke throughout thread with random accusations of anti semitism and alignment to Hamas. Ignore it - it's the last refuge place of stupid people to insult you.*

Resorting to calling people fascists because they don’t follow the Palestinians = innocent victims and Israelis = evil genocidal murderers. You are gaslighting liars with complete bias

Human Rights Watch
For the last 25 years, Israel has imposed increasingly strict restrictions on travel to and from the Gaza Strip. Those restrictions affect nearly every aspect of life in Gaza, including the ability of human rights workers to document violations of human rights and international humanitarian law (IHL) and to advocate for their remediation. While Israel makes exceptions to its travel ban for what it calls humanitarian reasons, as a rule, it does not permit Palestinian, Israeli and foreign staff of human rights organizations to enter or leave Gaza. Israel controls Gaza’s airspace and territorial waters and has prevented the operation of an airport or seaport for the past two decades, rendering Palestinians in Gaza dependent on foreign ports to travel abroad. It also severely restricts all travel between Gaza and the West Bank, recognized as a single territorial unit, even when the transit does not take place via Israeli territory

I can guarantee that my father had come to regret his early support for Zionism by the time of his death. I strongly suspect that his friend Namier had as well, though I can't prove that by their conversations -- which were mere family, not biased documentation.

And Israelis make up 80% of the population and lost 8 when I last heard yesterday. To the Palestinian 20% who lost 115.
I know who I think is more worried.

Resorting to calling people fascists because they don’t follow the Palestinians = innocent victims and Israelis = evil genocidal murderers. You are gaslighting liars with complete bias

To be clear - I'm calling the Israeli Government Fascist because it is. It is denying human rights to people, restricting their movement, denying them food and aid, silencing their press, bombing their already under resourced schools and throwing them illegally out of their homes. I'm calling them Fascist because history will judge them that way - I'm not calling them Fascist because 'they don't follow the Palestinians' (whatever you think that means).

How come you can’t immagine how it feels to not have any safety to go to when the Israelis start bombing and shooting then?

I do try and imagine and it is an awful situation but one that is being used by Hamas who practically invited retaliation by Israel for PR by launching 1000s of rockets to try and overwhelm the Israeli defences.

It doesn’t mean the rockets being fired at Israel (fairly constant occurrence) doesn’t take a toll - especially on the children. Would you like your children to hear sirens and have minutes to run for shelter - maybe on their own - no parents around. Or do Israeli children just not matter at all

*Don't be provoked......remain calm. And let’s just use our intellect to help them expose their fascism

Exactly. They have been trying to provoke throughout thread with random accusations of anti semitism and alignment to Hamas. Ignore it - it's the last refuge place of stupid people to insult you.*

Sounds to me like you were calling posters you disagree with fascists

@Ikeasucks they don't care about Israeli civilians, it's obvious.. this entire thread apart from a few posters is designed to raise hatred towards Israel.

@Ikeasucks

Just curious- speaking as a Palestinian, what unwise choice have I and my family made to deserve this? I too, am living here in the Uk. My family are from Haifa. My family fled in 1948. I am unable to go back to my grandfather's house in Haifa.

@Ikeasucks

All children matter. Why are you raising your children to carry on the conflict rather than asking your leader to find a solution?
You can see why the Palestinians resort to stone throwing; they have no power over Israel. You do.

@Acidburn
Actually, we do. I am Palestinian and it is absolutely heart wrenching to see civilians die, Israeli and Palestinian. families have lost their children, siblings and partners. No one should experience this. I do not want any loss of life.

So do not tarnish all posters on here please.

The question seems to be whether it is worse to be frightened for a few days or to be frightened for most of your life and then dead of what you were afraid of.

Of course, once somebody is dead they are unlikely to be afraid any more.

Hmm. Difficult decision.

From the BBC live log,

Akiva Eldar, a columnist for the online media outlet covering the Middle East Al Monitor in Jerusalem, has told the BBC how he sees the conflict unfolding over the coming days and weeks.

Quote Message: The question is not just a military one, how do you finish attacking Gaza, striking Gaza, dropping more bombs.
The question is not just a military one, how do you finish attacking Gaza, striking Gaza, dropping more bombs.

Quote Message: I think it's now a question [of] who will get a victory image. It seems that the Israeli decision makers are happy with the images of the Hamas tunnels being bombed and the number of Hamas activists being eliminated
I think it's now a question [of] who will get a victory image. It seems that the Israeli decision makers are happy with the images of the Hamas tunnels being bombed and the number of Hamas activists being eliminated

Quote Message: For Hamas I think, the victory image is what's happening in Israel proper. They have managed to do what all Arab countries and the PLO [Palestinian Liberation Organization] headed by legendary Yasser Arafat have not managed to do, which is to unite the Palestinians in Israel, the West Bank, Gaza and around the world against Israel.
For Hamas I think, the victory image is what's happening in Israel proper. They have managed to do what all Arab countries and the PLO [Palestinian Liberation Organization] headed by legendary Yasser Arafat have not managed to do, which is to unite the Palestinians in Israel, the West Bank, Gaza and around the world against Israel.

Quote Message: They have managed to send Israelis to shelter and to hide for almost a week, and we're talking now about an attrition war.
They have managed to send Israelis to shelter and to hide for almost a week, and we're talking now about an attrition war.

I'd also like to remind some posters that the oppression is not just in Gaza. The Palestinians are facing discrimination on a regular basis and illegal settlements in the West Bank and Jerusalem exacerbate this.

Ive heard sirens and air raids for many many years growing up. I can empathise. We're not all siping tea from our ivory tower here @Acidburn and @Ikeasucks

some are actually commenting from our own lived experiences here, and are trying to say enough bloodshed, for both sides.

Gaza is a slightly separate issue so why are we conflating Hamas with Jerusalem and ALL Palestinians?
They don't speak for me- I'm from haifa. My partner's family are from Jerusalem/ West Bank. Hamas is not our govt- they are paramilitary.

Hamas were supported by Israeli govt to oppress Fatah btw. Much like how the USA 'supported' AlQaeda to oppose the USSR.

Anyway, we are not a monolith

I stand with Israel on this. However I don't support posts being taken down. I want freedom of speech.

Sorry about the botched copying and pasting, not sure what happened there.

For those interested,

The Naturei Karta Haredi Jewish population and the yet to be released documentary “Rabi Intifada” provides an alternative perspective of the history of Jews in the region. One that doesn’t support the mainstream narrative.

www.therabbisintifada.com/

Those rabbis, are at every protest for Palestinian rights. They are hero’s of human rights. They have all my love.

[quote Acidburn]@Ikeasucks they don't care about Israeli civilians, it's obvious.. this entire thread apart from a few posters is designed to raise hatred towards Israel.[/quote]
If you are concerned about Israeli citizens you need to do something about the conflict then. Demand change. Demand a peaceful solution Or are you waiting for the day when Palestine no longer exists as the solution?
If the rest of the world judges your governments behaviour as appalling, you have to look at why that is. Same as NI same as Apartheid. The only good solution is a peaceful one. Not meaning and carrying on fighting for another 50 years.

@Xenia

I stand with Israel on this. However I don't support posts being taken down. I want freedom of speech.

Israel have just bombed the international media tower in Gaza, and thus blocked free speech and reporting...

Sounds to me like you were calling posters you disagree with fascists

Well you are determined to misconstrue what is written, even when clarified for you. You've had historical fact, independent reporting and human rights and Reuters data shared with you, yet still you are in denial.
Thank God you only have insults to throw at people and nothing more dangerous.