You just cannot talk about Palestine on this forum

[Faffandahalf]

Why has the last thread been taken down with a ‘goady op’ message?
What’s so goady about asking why we can’t criticise the actions of Israel?
Don’t even give a shit this is a TAAT and will get zapped.

Palestine exists. Ethnic cleansing is happening. And every single thread gets taken down.

Only one person on that thread shouted anti semitism. Every one else was mostly in agreement about what is happening and it still gets zapped.

I’ll once again direct people to friends of al Aqsa on Instagram and Twitter in the hopes people see this and would like some real information.

Israel is an occupying oppressor committing genocide and the Palestinians are an oppressed people. There is no comparison in the force power and might of these two groups esp when one has the backing and funding of the US.

Seriously pissed at MN for refusing to allow truths to be told about the situation

[Ikeasucks]

Very interesting. Thank you. For me it’s the lack of
compassion towards the Palestinians who are killed that is the most worrying. It’s not human to see pictures of dead children who were killed by an army of a govt that you voted for and just shrug your shoulders and say the lines that are being repeated over and over to basically gaslight anyone who dares criticise the Israeli govt. I asked the question above as I’ve noticed a few Jewish people comment on social media that they are risking a lot to come out and speak against the Israeli government. I just wondered if it were actually true?

Many israelis don’t want to see dead palestinians (especially children) - Netanyahu only got 20 odd % in the last election but they know palestinians would try and kill them and their children if they had the opportunity. Did you miss the wars where Palestinians and surrounding countries tried to wipe Israel out - the stabbing attacks, the suicide bombs, the Munich Olympics?

There is some huge naivety on this thread from those who live a mostly unthreatened life in the UK

[JustFedUpOfThis]

@Chaiandkaafee

The Saudi Arabians are the real reason for the instability in the Middle East from what I can see. Not the Israelis.

No! It is completely irresponsible to put the “trouble in the Middle East” down to one factor or one country. It is far, far, far more complex. Saudi Arabia is a huge problem and I’m really concerned about the rise of Mohammad bin Salman. But You have to look way beyond (and note that Saudi Arabia has been supported by US for decades due to oil)

This argument will go nowhere if we look to distil it down to one culprit.

[Adventureswith]

Seeing reports on Twitter that

[Chaiandkaafee]

The Saudi Arabians are the real reason for the instability in the Middle East from what I can see. Not the Israelis.

[Chaiandkaafee]

Very interesting. Thank you. For me it’s the lack of
compassion towards the Palestinians who are killed that is the most worrying. It’s not human to see pictures of dead children who were killed by an army of a govt that you voted for and just shrug your shoulders and say the lines that are being repeated over and over to basically gaslight anyone who dares criticise the Israeli govt. I asked the question above as I’ve noticed a few Jewish people comment on social media that they are risking a lot to come out and speak against the Israeli government. I just wondered if it were actually true?

[piddocktrumperiness]

@Acidburn
I may be naive here but Hamas are backed by the Muslim brotherhood- a huge problem in the Middle East supported by the USA. I personally believe that if Israel gave equal rights to Palestinians then we, the Palestinians and Israelis, would be the envy of the Middle East.

This would mean that Saudi Arabia would be pissed off as it means that the people they treated like dogs; the Palestinians, are now thriving alongside Jews in a democracy with great development outcomes- something they can never have. So they could start to ruffle feathers again- that is Saudi though, which is an ally to Britain and the US. So to get rid of Hamas, you'd need to get rid of the puppeteers there too.

[piddocktrumperiness]

Why are they fed this paranoia?

Anti semitism was a European thing- Arabs and Jews lived in Palestine for many years prior, in peace- No one thought anything of it, much like no one thinks anything of Arab Christians in the Middle East. There was never any ill will towards jewish people by the Palestinians in the region, nor by other arab countries- it was a complete non issue.

So this recent trauma within the jewish community is due to the crap they endured mostly across Europe.

What the Palestinians don't like is being displaced- that is not a Jewish thing, that is a political thing within a zionist movement backed by some Extremist Christian in the West, not even by most Jews, creating an asymmetric relationship in the Middle East

No one wants to wipe out Jews ffs. No one is saying that! Stop conflating THE STATE with the people. When one person says I want Israel gone- they do not mean the people, the citizens, of which there are Israeli Arabs there too, and Palestinian jews, and Christians- the whole place is teeny tiny; so obviously it wouldn't make sense; how the hell would you even go about doing that without killing the very people you are supposedly supporting? MAKES NO SENSE. They mean the GOVT- THE STATE- the foundation of lies and Christian zionism, that perpetuates the atrocities.

Israelis and maybe some Jewish people in the west must be fed that fear from a young age, which is so damaging and only perpetuates the paranoia.

[Faffandahalf]

Hi all. I’ve started a new thread as this one is about to get full I think.
It hasn’t come up in active (just like this one didn’t)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4246199-Discussing-Palestinian-Oppression-part-2

[JustFedUpOfThis]

@DeepThinkingGirl

I’m afraid I am not able to help with your question on international law but I think this book would be very helpful:

Justice for Some: Law and the Question of Palestine

All I read at the moment is books on “middle east” though I am including Afghanistan and Pakistan in this too as understanding what happened in Afghanistan in the 1980’s is a fundamental part of the story (as the rise of Islamic fundamentalism and al Qaeda is such and important part of the story. Though of course you then find yourself going even further back as the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, itself triggered by the fall of the Ottoman Empire is important too)

It think continuing to speak out on threads like this (please start a new one @Faffandahalf) as the more people read - with both sides commenting - the more likely people are to engage. The problem is of course people don’t read the whole thread, so on page 10 we get simplistic comments like “but everyone around Israel wants it destroyed so no wonder it fights back” - that sounds like a reasonable narrative until you dig deeper - and it’s the exposure of the background to the problem that’s so important - and the understanding that what is now Israel was land predominantly occupied by Arabs that was colonised post WW1. This is the story that many want hidden away.

Calm and rational discussion and raising awareness is the key. I’d encourage everyone to read as much as possible.

And last book recommendation- if you want to get an insight into the how guilty the British are in the entire region, this gives an excellent overview :

What the British Did: Two centuries in the Middle East

It’s not just about Palestine - the entire region was of fundamental strategic interest to the British because of its “Jewel in the Crown”, India.

PS I’d also noticed it didn’t come up in “Active Threads” and found this surprising.

[Acidburn]

@piddocktrumperiness the problem with your solution is that you are basically saying that Hamas is looking after the Palestinians, so if the Palestinians get what they (rightfully) want - then Hamas will dissapear because there will be no more need for it. And thats where you are wrong - as proven many times - Hamas will not go away, because they are not conserned with the Palestinians well being, they are driven by desire to kill the Jews.

[piddocktrumperiness]

@Acidburn
Yes I've seen this quote many many times on the internet- it is just a soundbite- I have a third option

If Israel offers equal rights to Palestinians and stops all form of discrimination, accept that the land is for Jews, Christians and Muslims, no matter what- there would be just peace.
There would be no Hamas.

[Adventureswith]

@Chaiandkaafee I don’t know any Israelis who don’t think that it’s all the Palestinians fault. Not one. They don’t see them as equals in any sense of the word.
They do not care. They and Their kids all
Serve in the IDF at some point which makes them see their military as heroes, end of.
They believe what their government tell them- that Hamas use human shields so it’s all Hamas fault.
They’re beyond paranoid and genuinely believe every country around them wants to wipe them out.

[CounsellorTroi]

@Chaiandkaafee

Can I just add. These are genuine questions? Can they criticise their government or will they get into trouble?

Well Israel is a democracy so opposition to their government’s disgraceful actions should certainly be allowed.

[Chaiandkaafee]

Can I just add. These are genuine questions? Can they criticise their government or will they get into trouble?

[Chaiandkaafee]

But surely they cannot feel justification when so many Palestinians are killed? They must feel wretched when they see those images? And what of the planned annexations? Are they happy with their brethren kicking people out of their homes and terrorising them until they leave? If I were Israeli I’d feel some remorse, surely?

[Parker231]

And the Palestinians (rightly imo) want to live peacefully on their land.

[Weareallabitcomplicated]

My understanding from Israeli friends is they feel their whole existence is under threat on a daily basis. Every surrounding neighbour wants them gone. Therefore they will do anything to survive.

Until that changes I can't see anything else changing.

[DeepThinkingGirl]

I hope the OP starts a new thread after this one

[Adventureswith]

42 Palestinian children have been killed now, almost a third of the death toll in Gaza. And the bombardment goes on.

[Chaiandkaafee]

Why do we need to take sides? Why can’t both sides be right or both sides be wrong? If you support Israel - does that mean you support their every action? If you support Palestinians can you not disagree with some of their decisions? Respectfully - We won’t achieve any sort of peace in the region until we stop taking sides.

[Xenia]

The Financial Times allows no comments at all on issues such as Israel and a good few others like MeTo and trans and race. You can comment to your heart's content on share prices however....

I support Israel but it is hard to take that stance in the UK as there is huge support for the other side. However it is important no one is cowed into not expressing the view as no one then realises others have different views.

[Chaiandkaafee]

Very difficult and emotive subject. The minute anyone talks about Palestinians right to exist, defend themselves and live in their own homes peacefully you are jumped on and it’s taken to mean that that equates to the opposite for Israelis. Which is of course untrue.

[flashbac]

@DeepThinkingGirl

Considering how active this thread has been, im
Very surprised that it’s not on the “active threads” list at all.

I wondered this. I thought it had been zapped.

[MyOctopusFeature]

No, you can’t come on here and talk about Palestine. Mumsnet won’t let you.

[StoneofDestiny]

girl - you realise, don't you, that these Haredim forbid their wives from driving, and expel from their schools anyone whose parents they consider too modern. I'm not sure if human rights are very far up their agenda

It's all relative.
The Israeli government are blowing up Palestinian schools, thereby expelling all pupils, and they control all who can drive in and out of Gaza (male and female)
The Haredi choose what's happening in their community, the Palestinians are not choosing what is happening - it's forced upon them.