You just cannot talk about Palestine on this forum

[Faffandahalf]

Why has the last thread been taken down with a ‘goady op’ message?
What’s so goady about asking why we can’t criticise the actions of Israel?
Don’t even give a shit this is a TAAT and will get zapped.

Palestine exists. Ethnic cleansing is happening. And every single thread gets taken down.

Only one person on that thread shouted anti semitism. Every one else was mostly in agreement about what is happening and it still gets zapped.

I’ll once again direct people to friends of al Aqsa on Instagram and Twitter in the hopes people see this and would like some real information.

Israel is an occupying oppressor committing genocide and the Palestinians are an oppressed people. There is no comparison in the force power and might of these two groups esp when one has the backing and funding of the US.

Seriously pissed at MN for refusing to allow truths to be told about the situation

There is a British interest here, too, in addition to the overriding humanitarian one.

Can I quote my late night post from another thread, about what's happening and why? (It's a bit rough, but it was late.)
……..................................................

"The Palestinian Arab residents of Sheikh Jerrah, in occupied East Jerusalem, are to be forcibly removed from their homes that they've legally lived in for nearly 70 years, so that they can be given to Israeli 'settlers'.

The UN has repeatedly condemned this occupation, but it goes on.

Israel says it has a legal right to possess the Palestinian homes because they were once owned by Jewish residents.

The Palestinian response(s) have resulted in hardline tactics from the Israeli forces.

Sheikh Jerrah lies just outside the Old City Jerusalem walls, around Mount Scopus and the Mount of Olives Road. The British Consulate for East Jerusalem sits just above the neighbourhood, along with a British Academy funded institute and a beautiful Commonwealth War Graves cemetery containing the burials of many British WW1 soldiers.

This neighbourhood is being ripped apart and the Palestinian objectors have now it seems lost patience with legal process.

The latest battles are raging down in the Old City at the holy Temple Mount which is surmounted by two very holy mosques, al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock. This is a contested site - for Jewish people and Muslims alike, with revered Christian places close by. It is controlled by Israel, and has been since 1967.

Israel is currently commemorating the 1967 occupation (after the Six Day War) and so tensions are heightened."
......................................

I could have added to this the work of the British Council in East Jerusalem and Palestinian territory, funded by the British government.

This is prior British Mandate territory, post Ottoman post WW1.

This!

Btw MN were happy to let anti semitism pass on a thread about David Baddiel with no mention of Israel. Very slow response and very mealy mouthed when it did come.

What's happening there is horrific and against all human rights. I'm not surprised at the shutting down of conversation though

Israel killed 5 Palestinian children yesterday. They were not being used as shields

I am unaware about this situation / issue? What can I google to read about it and get some facts ?

Look up #Sheikh Jarrah on Twitter.

The OP of the deleted thread was as far from goady as you can get. IIRC the OP asked for "unbiased" sources of information about the conflict. But it got zapped.

So YANBU at all OP.

@HannaHat

Look up #Sheikh Jarrah on Twitter.

Going to have a look

I have no knowledge and want to know as have a friend whose teenage son recently left the country to join the Israeli army and I’m now extremely interested . Never occurred to me to ask questions as didn’t know anything

@PottyTrainingissues Sharing the Promised Land by Dilip Hiro gives an overview, but it is quite old now so won’t cover recent events (unless it’s been updated in the last 20 years)

YANBU OP AT ALL

"Palestine exists". Does it? Could you point it out on a map.

For the record I am not pro Israel or pro Palestinians. Neither are underdogs and both have committed terrible atrocities and too much bad blood has been shed between the two of them. However, Palestine does not exist. it is not a place on a modern map.

The papers state the Palestinians are throwing stones...stones? They are massive huge rocks and they kill people. they have rammed cars into innocent pedestrians and blown up buses full of children. Israel has gone nuclear and destroyed villages in retaliation of individual's actions and they continue to build in the West Bank even though it is illegal. Both are wrong. but the conflict is really long and complex and most people barely know the basics

It's wrong to say all Palestinian people murder their children, it's also wrong to say that this is a genocide (it's not).

@Faffandahalf

I think the Palestinians have seen what happens when no one ‘nails their colours’ to their sides. No one in the real world cares. They only have themselves. The word underdog trivialises a brutal occupation and regime that commits atrocities regularly.

I put those words in quotes for a reason. I was trying not to say anything that would be as emotive as some others have used on this topic. Had you chosen to take my post as a whole you might have come away with a completely different view of what I was actually saying. But I do understand that sound bites have become a SM 'thing'!

If you want to discuss this, as your OP says, then surely shooting down anyone who doesn't agree with you 100% is not the way to go!

Especially as I didn't disagree with anything specifically!

Posts like this, about either state, just don't help anyone. It doesn't share information, doesn't educate, doesn't enlighten.

It just shuts people down - the exact behaviour you are complaining about!

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Hear, hear!

Yep - I wish we could have an open discussion about the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Based on only facts.

The reason they are taken down is due to people expressing awful islamophobia and anti-semitism.

On the first thread today we had both islamophobia and anti-semitism on the first page.

CuriousaboutSamphire

Excellent, sensible post!

I’m not shutting anything down. Indisagree with your word choice. I wasn’t shooting you down either. I’m commenting on your post.

Poster above says Palestine does not exist on a map. Should it not exist on a map then?
Who decides on what goes on Maps?
Colonisers. In the history of the world it is colonisers who create maps. Pretty sure the Native American maps if they ever had any would have looked a lot different to what was created by the colonisers there.

Palestinian throwing stones cannot match the force of the Israel occupying forces. The idea that the two reactions are in any way equal is farcical.
Yes Palestinians commit violent acts. When you are an oppressed minority with no help from the outside world you don’t have much choice

Sorry but I refuse to not describe things as they are because people don’t like it.
Ethnic cleansing
Occupation
Slow suffocation genocide

@SimonJT

The reason they are taken down is due to people expressing awful islamophobia and anti-semitism.

On the first thread today we had both islamophobia and anti-semitism on the first page.

Really? I didn’t see either.

@HannaHat So saying muslims want to take over the world isn’t islamophobic? There was a lot anti-semitism, so interesting that you didn’t see it.

@CuriousaboutSamphire, it would be good to be able to have a sensible discussion about what happened in the region after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire by the allies during the Great War and how they carved it up in 1919-21.

We're looking at the British, French, Russians, Italians and Americans for starters. Zionists and 'Arabists'. Pen-pushers, politicians, investors, colonisers, survivors. Majorities and minorities. Druse, Armenians, Kurds and Orthodox Christians to be represented.

@JustFedUpOfThis

Yep - I wish we could have an open discussion about the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Based on only facts.

OK. State your facts. I would imagne most people reading this will know them and agree that ethnic cleansing does take place and is fucking horrific.

But place your date marker in any given year since May 48 and it is guaranteed that there will be a different understanding of what is happening there.

What is your solution?

In the early 80s (when I became old enough to understand some of what was happening) my solution would have been to tell the various Arab countries of the time to stop, to enter into talks, to stop their aggressive acts.

Late 80s, early 90s I was watching Arafat, Peres and Rabin with hope.

In the 90s watching some borders being settled, Hezbollah rise and the PLO become a recognised political entity

Then various antifada and a resurgence in separatism, nationalism.

Which bit is your starting point? Which situation is right?