JK Rowling, is she being unreasonable? YABU = don't agree with JK, YANBU = do agree with JK **MNHQ edited wonky title**

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

Massive social media debate going on with JK stating “erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives”

Wanted to know outside the feminist board how people feel. Is she being unreasonable in being against transgender people identifying as they feel as in sex. Or is this the normal view and trans gender people should accept they are male/female dependant on their birth?

destructogirl

At a fawcett society event Sal Brinton then president of the Liberal Democrat’s was asked if she’d be happy if Parliament was 50% men & 50% TW and she said yes because TW are women

Your scenario is therefore not as far fetched as ppl might think. If you redefine women to include men then there are no women’s Sex based rights

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3310443-Fawcett-Society-Live-stream-from-5-30pm-Courage-Calls-Ask-her-to-stand

I am completely with JKR on this one, and am amused that Daniel Radcliffe and Eddie Redmayne, two males of white privilege who will never find any of their 'spaces' invaded- disagree with her.

Eddie Redmayne went to Eton and used to be mates with Prince Harry. Not exactly a natural champion of the underprivileged there.

She isn't against transgender people she is pro women. There is a difference. She, like many other people, is just sick of women's rights being eroded

This is all that needs to be said.

So why don't people get that then??

YANBU. I just can't say what I want to eloquently enough in a realm where every phrase or piece of terminology used is picked apart and attacked. Having read JKR's essay I am supremely grateful that she has done such an amazing job in expressing the truth. The truth. Women exist and we matter. Trans people exist and they matter. The two things are not mutually exclusive!!

@destructogirl

I was wondering how this issue (whether only women have periods is a true statement) affects employment rights.

For example, could an employer say they will hire 50% men and 50% women because I am an equal opportunity Employer, but I’m not employing people who menstruate.

Normally this would be indirect discrimination because only women menstruate, but if both men and women menstruate then it is not discriminatory at all, there are no employments rights for people who menstruate ?

That is exactly what the Scottish Government have decided is the case on the Gender Representation on Public Boards. An all male public board can be considered gender equality, all it requires is for a half the men to say they are female. They don’t need to make any changes to themselves or provide proof of anything as you are not allowed to ask.

Faceofaspink yes it's fucking offensive. And mostly the way we're completely shut down. JKR is an absolute heroine for sticking her head above the parapet on this. She knew the absolute shit storm she'd find herself in but said it anyway.

Destructogirl and Kit19 this is another really scary part. I just can't believe that intelligent women are colluding in erasure from their own rights. The irony is that most of the women who support women's rights also support trans rights of freedom from persecution and abuse. They just don't want their own rights to be eroded after so many hard fought years and having only just reached some level of equity.

Pinklynx

I think this is becatse a lot of women still don’t see what is happening. They are fewer I was 2 years ago which was

Oh honestly it’s just a few ppl...it must be awful to live in a body you hate...if they’ve gone to all that effort with surgery & hormones I can at least be kind & pretend they’re a woman....I mean they’re not, not like I’m a woman but it won’t cost me anything to be kind will it

And then the light began to dawn & once it did there was no going back

Where I was not fewer 🤦🏻‍♀️

YANBU

Wishing can't change chromosones, which is the fundamental difference between men & women

Men have one X chromosone; women have 2

Biology can't be just wished away:
e.g. the difference in the immune systems of men & women and the consequently higher COVID death rates for men & boys in every country in the world

the difference in the immune systems of men & women and the consequently higher COVID death rates for men & boys in every country in the world

Which just goes to show that Covid-19 is a racist, sexist and transphobic virus.

Someone should invite the virus to a struggle session like they tried to do with Rowling, so it can be kindly and lovingly steered in a non bigoted direction.

They discussing it on This Morning now

India, on this morning, said she is with her on self id and single sex spaces and said there is no need to change language.

I don't agree with the OP's summary of what JKR actually meant, but have voted YANBU, as in I agree with J K Rowling.

At best, her essay and comments have been misunderstood by the ardently woke brigade who are determined to be seen as right on, without stopping to ponder the consequences for others, ie women.

At worst, her essay and comments have been wilfully misinterpreted by those seeking to hammer women's rights into the ground as if they no longer matter or are somehow irrelevant now.

Honestly, you couldn't make it up. Every day my jaw drops just a little bit more at this whole bloody circus.

@destructogirl

I was wondering how this issue (whether only women have periods is a true statement) affects employment rights.

For example, could an employer say they will hire 50% men and 50% women because I am an equal opportunity Employer, but I’m not employing people who menstruate.

Normally this would be indirect discrimination because only women menstruate, but if both men and women menstruate then it is not discriminatory at all, there are no employments rights for people who menstruate ?

The potential for harm here is very real. The Scottish government just passed guidance about just this insistence on certain boards where there is a gender balance. JKR mentioned it in her essay, it come to the public's eyes last week. Oh, and it is hate to ask them for any proof at all. And it clarifies that this male can still present as male, just pronouns, some documentation such as utility bills and not much else.

I would expect that this 'guidance' will replicate into many other parts of the law.

So, yes, Why would you hire a female if you can meet the gender requirements by hiring people who don't need leave for being pregnant and caring for children. Progressive or regressive?

So, this is not a 'straw man' argument as is dismissed by many.

Sorry, Aesop. Cross post.

Good article in the times www.thetimes.co.uk/article/creased-and-loved-lark-rise-is-back-on-my-shelf-986kntbpk?shareToken=0af3803c7d591c9ba2c71999f7b73fa3

Not the lark rise bit

The JKR bit

The more I read about this the more fucking angry I get.
We are starting to remove films and TV series for portraying ‘black face’ (and rightly so!!)
But a man puts some make up on and tells us he is a woman and tells us how we should feel about that, takes away our rights and we have to just shut up about it?? People get sacked for holding this belief? JKR gets ripped to shreds including from the likes of Radcliffe and Redmayne??

I feel like I am in the twilight zone here.

@Ethelfelda
He doesn’t even have to put on so much as a bit of lip balm. “I am a woman” will suffice, apparently.

@Winesalot

Sorry, Aesop. Cross post.

Worth repeating

Interesting article
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/national/feminists-like-jk-rowling-struggle-with-the-transgender-movement-but-they-should-not-be-silenced-20200610-p55173.html

It has just dawned on me that by making a comment but ignoring the way JKR has been receiving vicious mysogynistic and threatening comments, Eddie Redmayne, Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watson have in essence condoned this hateful treatment of women. They witnessed it and just turned a blind eye. Very much part of the problem. Since they involved themselves and commented , their silence on this masculine bullying of women (which is as old as the hills) is glaring.

Women hating still good in this new world, even in the luvvie's bubbles. Good to have that still with us.

That is just my opinion of course. I find their lack of outcry troubling. It makes me think they are happy not to speak out against the active bullying, threats and hate against a women. Those hate guys are just obsessed with their penises.