JK Rowling, is she being unreasonable? YABU = don't agree with JK, YANBU = do agree with JK **MNHQ edited wonky title**

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

Massive social media debate going on with JK stating “erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives”

Wanted to know outside the feminist board how people feel. Is she being unreasonable in being against transgender people identifying as they feel as in sex. Or is this the normal view and trans gender people should accept they are male/female dependant on their birth?

"She took her case to an employment tribunal, asking the judge to rule on whether a philosophical belief that sex is determined by biology is protected in law. Judge Tayler ruled that it wasn’t."

This is interesting. I can't remember the legislation, but wasn't there a clause that the only people who wouldn't be recognised as transitioning to the opposite sex was women who wanted to identify as men for inheritance purposes. It upheld discriminatory laws against women on things such as Entailed. They regard it as a crock when it affects their privilege to their disadvantage.

I remember thinking the patriarchy f*cks women (ie. females) at every turn and of course they wouldn't recognise it for women to identify their way out of discrimination. Shows it up.

Thank you JKR for your post on your site. And OP, I hope that you got enough alternative viewpoints. The poll seems rather indicative.

what happened? did anyone else lose the voting option?

stand down, it's back

No, voting is still there for me. On my desktop version.

History is full of painful lessons on what happens to people when beliefs are codified into law.

Thank you for everyone who has commented. I raised this as someone with no views either way wanting to gain some understanding of the matter. I am now much more informed so thank you for educating me 💕

100 percent in solidarity with JK

I am sorry but I have re read what she has said and am really struggling to understand what she is saying so not really sure how so many conclusions are being drawn?!

I'm on the app so it won't let me vote but JKR is amazing here. Her essay and her tweets are compassionate, caring and spot on. Yet she is being threatened and abused by people who refuse to read what she writes. Well done JKR. I'm horrified by the vile abuse she gets in return.

@Igmum 2086 votes, 92% in JKs favour. I think the majority have spoken!

YANBU 100%

@Hatethewordhun actually it’s 92% 😂

Haha! I couldn’t see the vote from the app!

bumping this so more people vote

@yummumto3girls

I am sorry but I have re read what she has said and am really struggling to understand what she is saying so not really sure how so many conclusions are being drawn?!

Which bits do you not understand? I’m sure there are lots MN who will try and explain it a bit more to help you ale a decision either way. It’s a complicated and difficult area.

Have you seen some of the tweets on Owen Jones Twitter, there is one that says the JKR piece is so convincing that I wondered for a moment if my beliefs were wrong then I realised its just bigotry, no wonder they dont want people to read it.

These wokebeards love their brainwashing far too much to abandon it on the word of a woman.

I’m late to the party here but after reading about JRK tweets I am in complete agreement with her.

What strikes me is that misogyny seems to be the most accepted form of discrimination. JKR has been sharing her experiences of domestic and sexual abuse and people are more up in arms about the supposedly transphobic element of what she said!

I am an egalitarian. I believe in equal rights for everyone but not at the expense of others. I also can’t help but think, if white men the world over suddenly started proclaiming that they ‘felt like a‘ person of colour and started to say race was a philosophical construct and not just about physical appearance, and demanded to be able to change their ethnicity - would this be as widely accepted by society??

Don't know how to vote but I agree with JK totally!

So why are so many people up in arms then and why do we have to be so careful not to say the wrong thing if so many people really feel this way??

That right there really is the key question. Why has something that almost everyone believes become publicly un-sayable?

(Once you start asking that question you may find yourself getting more and more angry, and also more than a little worried about the impact social media is having on society.)

if white men the world over suddenly started proclaiming that they ‘felt like a‘ person of colour and started to say race was a philosophical construct and not just about physical appearance, and demanded to be able to change their ethnicity - would this be as widely accepted by society??

And how about if they then said they should be entitled to black industry awards, and scholarships for black people and to apply for programmes that are designed to support black people. And then they can insist on being able to act as representatives in black people's organisations and be counsellors for black people who feel they've been discriminated against. And then those organisations focus not on the experiences of black people but rather white people posing as black people.

That sounds bad enough but doesn't take into account some of the other concerns that only affect women. Like needing women's spaces in order to feel safe - in prisons and changing rooms. And because competitive sport for women is a nonsense if you allow people who've grown up with the benefit of male physiology to compete against women.

All that and then you get black people who complain about this shut down for being prejudiced. And you get black people calling other black people fascist for even wanting to discuss it. It's just bonkers.

I was wondering how this issue (whether only women have periods is a true statement) affects employment rights.

For example, could an employer say they will hire 50% men and 50% women because I am an equal opportunity Employer, but I’m not employing people who menstruate.

Normally this would be indirect discrimination because only women menstruate, but if both men and women menstruate then it is not discriminatory at all, there are no employments rights for people who menstruate ?

PinkLynx exactly. Very well put.

PinkLynx and imagine if they based their claims on the fact that they like reggae and hip hop so that MUST mean that they're black. And NO DEBATE from you black people or you'll be literally killing us. It's really fucking offensive isn't it. So it should be but we're just meant to accept this as women purely on their say so.