JK Rowling, is she being unreasonable? YABU = don't agree with JK, YANBU = do agree with JK **MNHQ edited wonky title**

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

Massive social media debate going on with JK stating “erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives”

Wanted to know outside the feminist board how people feel. Is she being unreasonable in being against transgender people identifying as they feel as in sex. Or is this the normal view and trans gender people should accept they are male/female dependant on their birth?

So why are so many people up in arms then and why do we have to be so careful not to say the wrong thing if so many people really feel this way??

Daniel Radcliffe needs to keep quiet on the subject. As a rich white man from a western country, he is pretty much top of the pile when it comes to rights.

He's seems happy to give away women's rights, but if it was mens rights being affected by the trans debate, no doubt he would feel very different.

She's transphobic YABU

There is one thing I don't understand at all and would be grateful if someone can shed light on it!

JKR's tweet implied that she thought women should have been used rather than people. If these people insist 'trans women are women' then why would the use of the word women be an offensive alternative? Wasn't that the point of their transition? Trans women are women but how dare you suggest we use the word women?

What am I missing.....

@purple, it just seems to be among the very woke, who we Must Not Offend.
To me, it feels a lot like the emperor's new clothes.

Hopefully they won’t lie about what she actually said

And they will accurately repost the true nature of the posts sent to her by transwomen who we are meant to accept be allowed into spaces with our daughters.

@Maria53 from what I can gather, the focus was actually on trans men. So people were essentially saying men can menstruate too. Although I might have missed something myself.

I remember a few years ago telling my (now deceased) father about the trans ideology. His response was that I must be mistaken. I simply must have got the wrong end of the stick and misunderstood what was going on because the very concept of a man being a woman just because he says so was just so self evidently nonsensical that it wasn't worth worrying about.

That's half the problem. The whole dogma is so far fetched that people who don't hang round on Twitter (so that's most people over the age of about 50 ish) simply can't believe it exists.

And these threads should be confined to feminism because the majority of people don’t want to get involved in this kind of trans bashing

This is trans bashing? A woman who says only women menstruate, and the posters here who agree, are doing the bashing I suppose. Yes, in this topsy turvy world being called a cunt and a hag and being told to eat some dick, is just and right. And posters suggesting this behavior is OTT are trans bashing. Sigh.

Maria I'm lost on his point to.

As far as I was aware a transman is a man, so why would they be worried about women's issues, they no longer belong to that gender or recognition of that gender has been left behind. So women's rights aren't their issue anymore. Or have I also missed something.

DP certainly doesn't care as a man about women's sanitary products, he has no interest in the debate surrounding them, so shouldn't transmen who are men also share that though with their fellow men 🤔

I'm so confused.

purpleme12
Women are getting little solidarity from men, they are threatened with violence (some have been physically attacked), some have lost jobs and others have been taken to court. Misogyny is not a hate crime so women with opinions can be abused with impunity. Most political parties have embraced the ideology and embolded the violent activist when they label organisations such as WPUK as hate groups.

Emboldened FFS

This is so sad

And they will accurately repost the true nature of the posts sent to her by transwomen who we are meant to accept be allowed into spaces with our daughters

Yes...but i bet not

The concentration on Trans by sectors of the feminist movement on what might and could happen whilst standing by regarding what is happening to women every single day is diversionary and disappointing.

You're conveniently ignoring the fact that it's not what could happen, it's what's actually happening right now. There have already been men in women's prisons, changing rooms and hospital wards. There are already women who have lost their jobs for objecting. Why do those things, that are already happening, not meet your criteria for things that women should be interested in resisting?

@Smilethoyourheartisbreaking

I have voted YABU. The concentration on Trans by sectors of the feminist movement on what might and could happen whilst standing by regarding what is happening to women every single day is diversionary and disappointing.

Also some of those I have encountered on FWR have expressed outwardly racist opinions. The constant calling of people as 'woke' or 'snowflakes' involved in "Extinction Rebellion' etc is the exact rhetoric used by the Far Right. This tells me more than I need to know about these so called 'feminists' on MN.

I just hope JKR knows who she is getting in bed with.

Any chance of pointing out the outwardly racist opinions on FWR? Without evidence it sounds like so much bullshit, frankly.

Do people feel differently or more sympathetically to trans men than they do trans women?

• JKR's tweet implied that she thought women should have been used rather than people. If these people insist 'trans women are women' then why would the use of the word women be an offensive alternative? Wasn't that the point of their transition? Trans women are women but how dare you suggest we use the word women?

What am I missing.....*

Yes, the starting point is that using the word 'women' is exclusionary to (non medically transitioned, still fertile female) menstruating transmen. To which a solution might be to say 'women and transmen', I suppose.

I think perhaps what's really behind the wrath of the most vocal TRAs is that, indeed, all women don't menstruate. So if transwomen are women, then the issue of menstruation lumps them with post menopausal women and those who may not menstruate for other reasons. 'Defective' women, middle aged women, old women (I have pcos and am 59 btw) ... this does not accord with their sexy girl identities.

The concentration on Trans by sectors of the feminist movement on what might and could happen whilst standing by regarding what is happening to women every single day is diversionary and disappointing.

If the word woman loses its meaning then there is no feminist movement.
You have obviously missed the many discussions about FGM and domestic violence. MN is supporting the "we can't consent to this" campaign.

Extinction rebellion and antifa regularly team up. The far right are abhorrent but the far left are terrifyingly authoritarian. You clearly didn't note the hammer and sickle graffiti which has been prevalent during the recent demonstrations. Be careful what you wish for.

Jesus Christ @ErrolTheDragon so you’re telling me if I am having a bad period and want to tweet ‘periods are so crap it’s so unfair all women have to go through them’ then I’m apparently anti trans as I should modify my speech and thoughts? Ridiculous. How many trans women are there anyway compared to women (or how am I supposed to describe myself - I suppose I’m not allowed to say I’m a woman any more either? ) I mean in the worlds population what share are women and what share are trans women that women are supposed to bend over backwards to accommodate them. I don’t consider myself anti trans. If a man wants to transition to be a woman fine, get on with it enjoy your life - bit to expect me to change my life and how I speak and think to accommodate them is hilariously hypocritical “I want to be a woman so you can’t be the woman you want to be anymore”

@Smilethoyourheartisbreaking

Sure Wrong take a gander through this thread...enlightening. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3932354-Is-BLM-a-trojan-horse Also there are quite a few 'woke' comments on this thread already. What exactly is 'woke'? And why is it being used as an insult. A little bit of othering?

I'm not quite clear what you're saying in your last two posts.

It seems to me you're claiming that feminists of Mumsnet are racist because they use woke and snowflake as insults. As do Dr of the far right, apparently.

It's a bit of guilt by accidental association.

Woke refers to people who uncritically embrace any cause which purports to be progressive. Their lack of critical thinking skills makes them blind to regressive ideologies.