JK Rowling, is she being unreasonable? YABU = don't agree with JK, YANBU = do agree with JK **MNHQ edited wonky title**

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

Massive social media debate going on with JK stating “erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives”

Wanted to know outside the feminist board how people feel. Is she being unreasonable in being against transgender people identifying as they feel as in sex. Or is this the normal view and trans gender people should accept they are male/female dependant on their birth?

I agree with her 100%. As a woman and a survivor of child hood and adult hood Male violence, I want my sex protected spaces to stay that way. We need to retain the word woman to mean a sex and not a feeling.

It's not a leap at all is it

It's a pretty big fucking leap, as the FWR boards mirror Mumsnet, in being more left-leaning than right.

My local AU Labor Party branch is going to be very surprised to find out I'm on the 'far right'. Such nonsense.

I don’t see how the word woman can be offensive when used to describe women’s experiences. To be offended is plain bonkers.

I 100% agree with her.

The fact that people are saying that penises can be female and all the rest of that rubbish, and seem to actually believe it with no critical thought, makes me think of mass hysteria.

@Smilethoyourheartisbreaking

Did you read the thread? If it usnt representative of FWR posters. I'm happy to hear that. But it seems some are frequent posters to FWR. Is that viewpoint acceptable?

Also language is important. If the vernacular used is that of the Far Right (which it is btw) why is it being used and what is meant by it exactly? It's not a leap at all is it.

No I don't because I really don't have the time. I was hoping that, as you'd obviously kept a close eye on the thread, you could give me concrete examples of actual racism? And did you challenge posters on the actual thread?

I use the word table to denote a four-legged item of furniture that I eat my dinner from. I suspect the far-right do too. But that makes me neither far-right nor racist.

I completely agree with her - though accidentally voted the other way

• oops. It’s kind of amazing that Daniel Radcliffe can write his fucking essay on how if trans people feel they’re being erased we should listen to them when her whole point was around the erasure of women, and that’s not an issue he even mentions. It’s like saying - can all women talking about how women’s voices are not heard just shut up so we can listen to someone else.

It’s like saying - can all women talking about how women’s voices are not heard just shut up so we can listen to someone else.

Really well put.

Great to see the thread poll so much in support of Rowling!

And Radcliffe is a backstabbing, misogynist, patronising disgrace.

Woke from the OED online.

Not anything to do with the far right as far as I can see. That's not to say they don't use it, they might. I wouldn't know.

@Smilethoyourheartisbreaking

Wrong we both know I can not paste quotes from other threads. You asked where it was. I have shown you. You cannot be bothered to read it but asked if I called racism out?

Giving an analogy about a table? Come on. It's hardly the same. And again the language used about and against anyone who doesnt agree with the FWR view on Trans....is....drum roll.... Far Right

Not people I'd get into bed with. If you can morally justify it you must have to circle an awful lot of squares.

Actually you can copy and paste. if you're accusing posters of racism you need to stump up the evidence. it's not up to me to parse an entire thread for what you consider to be racist.

All you're bringing to the (ahem) table is snide insinuation about the use of the terms 'woke' and 'snowflake'.

Where is your proof that FWR members are allied with the Far Right? That's a filthy accusation which shouldn't be made lightly.

Even a stopped clock keeps the right time twice a day.

I can't fathom the logic whereby it is wrong to resist a particular injustice just because some other people, whose views on other issues you disagree with, happens to agree with you on that one particular issue.

That's like saying you can't support the legal protections that are in place for gay people because Peter Tatchell has published some very dubious writing about how children and sex.

Women and men are different.
Humans can’t change sex.
Only women have periods.

That this is controversial makes me despair.

I see everyone is posting in English here. That's one of the languages the far right uses, you know.

Breathing air, are you? Well, Hitler breathed air.

And again the language used about and against anyone who doesnt agree with the FWR view on Trans....is....drum roll.... Far Right

I don't know if this is misunderstanding, so I will act as though it is.

Feminism is gender critical, always has been. However, gender critical people are not necessarily Feminists.
The fact is that people on the left and the right of the political spectrum love their children and do not want them taught that failure to conform with sex role stereotypes means they were born in the wrong body and need to be put on drugs and have surgeries to create the illusion that they are the opposite sex.

Transgender advocacy maintains the social hierarchy while redefining homophobia and misogyny as progressive.
That is why it has been so eagerly embraced by authoritarian homophobic misogynists in position of power.

Trying to pretend that thousands of lefty liberal women all over the world suddenly transitioned to right wing conservatives is not working out quite the way it was hoped.
In the abuse recovery community what is being done to Jo Rowling is called DARVO.

Thanks TehBewilderness, I had to look up DARVO as I hadn't heard of it before and it's so starkly true of the Trans/Self-ID situation. The except below is from the Wikipedia definition of Darvo in relation to sex-offenders but the comparisons are glaring -

The attack will often take the form of focusing on ridiculing the person who attempts to hold the offender accountable. The offender rapidly creates the impression that the abuser is the wronged one, while the victim or concerned observer is the offender...The offender is on the offensive and the person attempting to hold the offender accountable is put on the defence

@isabellerossignol

Daniel Rafcliffe’s statement was a breath of fresh air imo

But you say that as if he has said something radical or brave. When actually he has just demonstrated misogyny and a complete disregard for the feelings of women. I find it so sad that in 2020 misogyny is viewed as a breath of fresh air.

I was particularly taken with the bit where he apologized to men for a woman refusing to submit to a male dominance display. That's a particularly popular dominance display among misogynists.

@BlackForestCake

I see everyone is posting in English here. That's one of the languages the far right uses, you know.

Breathing air, are you? Well, Hitler breathed air.

I studied German at school.

Hitler spoke German.

Uh oh.

www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

If you haven’t seen it, JKR’s response to the twitter storm is a cracking read. I teared up reading it.

www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

Oops, cross post jellyfish!

Worth posting twice, though. Worth posting a hundred times!

SophocIestheFox exactly, so good we posted twice

It's sad when people aren't happy with the sex they are, but no amount of hormones and surgery will change someone's sex. It's ridiculous that laws are being based on people's delusions and wishful thinking. It's even worse when the agenda is being pushed by people just with a sexual fetish (AGP).

I will admit I am not well educated on this issue....however

Surely if anyone should be "insulted" "upset" (but in reality I don't believe anyone should be and it's not transphobic) about JKs comments shouldn't it be transmen as they now identify as men but before surgery still menstruate so isn't it transmen that should be upset by a comment saying women menstruate

Yet all I seem to be reading about is how it's upsetting transwomen