JK Rowling, is she being unreasonable? YABU = don't agree with JK, YANBU = do agree with JK **MNHQ edited wonky title**

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

Massive social media debate going on with JK stating “erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives”

Wanted to know outside the feminist board how people feel. Is she being unreasonable in being against transgender people identifying as they feel as in sex. Or is this the normal view and trans gender people should accept they are male/female dependant on their birth?

[GlendaSugarbeanIsJudgingYou]

Giespeace, It feels a little like the Matrix or something.

Hi Pigeon, how are you? Tell me about your male-less sperm crop. :o

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

@giespeace if medicine/science evolves to allow trans women to experience menstrual bleeding would you then accept them as women? Just wondering where the line in science will stand for you?

My question at that point would be why research and development time was being wasted on creating fake periods for emotional validation purposes. The world is full of people suffering from medical conditions that have real, unavoidably physical symptoms and consequences, and would be better served by people capable of medical research focusing on alleviating their actual, physical suffering. Medicine as a whole should not go the way of plastic surgery.

That sort of constant pushing of boundaries and refusal to accept a "no" - but what if we did this? no? well how about this? sure it's not possible but what if? well then if you say no because A then how about if we did B? - would in any other context be recognized as coercive, abusive behavior. No, humans can't change sex. No, the refusal to accept women's first "no" does not mean that you're right, it just means that you don't respect other people's boundaries. No, the vast majority of people aren't buying these arguments and won't no matter how many times you rephrase them. Look at the ratio (here and on any media article that allows comments) if you don't believe me.

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

@GlendaSugarbeanIsJudgingYou I have no crop sadly. I could try for the male version but he’s snoring and grumpy.

[ItsLateHumpty]

Where are ya getting all that sperm from, Pigeon?

Maybe the user name is a clue?! ‘The pigeons are coming’ and we’re going to become an avian race.

Pigeon - will we grow wings too? How exciting!

[Babyboomtastic]

I'll consider it when:

-they suffer from crippling period pains for several days a month, followed by bleeding. Followers by crippling ovulation pains 2 weeks later

• when they push a small human out of their fake vagina, and have it tear open with no pain relief, or are operated on whilst conscious.
• when they experience at least some of the awfulness we have to put up with as a sex - fgm, forced marriage, rape, domestic violence, frequent sexual harrasment, groping, unequal division of labour/childcare.
• they give back 17% of their income that they have received, and agree henceforth to receive lower income in line with the sex pay gap. They may either wish to be demoted in work to reflect reduced opportunities, or just accept doing the same job for less.
• when as a transwoman, they stop complaining that they are being defined by someone else's and accept their subjugation, which is what is currently expected from women, with redefining of what it means to be female.

When they have done all the above, and lived under it for maybe a decade or so, then I'd consider it.

Strangely enough, the trend seeks to seek wearing pretty dresses, make up and sparkly shoes more than violence, discrimination and poverty, although those are far more integral to the female experience.

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

@TheProdigalKittensReturn a very valid point, treating medical illnesses and suffering should always come before anything deemed cosmetic

[LastRoloIsMine]

I voted YANBU as I agree with JK.

After reading your posts it appears you need to do a little research in to things...like human biology.

Woman don't need to have sex to become pregnant however human sperms is ALWAYS needed for a woman to become pregnant.

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

@LastRoloIsMine I agree with you

[LastRoloIsMine]

Which bit?

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

@LastRoloIsMine “Woman don't need to have sex to become pregnant however human sperms is ALWAYS needed for a woman to become pregnant” I agree

[Giespeace]

@Babyboomtastic

Can I add to that list?

• When they are up pacing the house at 4am with sickness and heartburn caused by the 33 week baby currently wriggling and squishing all their insides.
  

Yes, I’m feeling particularly female and grumpy about this subject just now...

[ItsLateHumpty]

Dunno why my last post was hidden - have asked MNHQ

Anyway @Thepigeonsarecoming you missed my last question to you;

If I read this, your latest response correctly, are you saying you already believe men can be / are already women, and science will catch up and make it so?

[ArriettyJones]

92% in favour of JKR so far. Good.

OTOH special mention to Jonathan Ross for talking sense in her defence and then crumbling under the slightest pressure (from his woke folk DD, apparently).

Mind you, it took JKR about three years and some false starts to be this brave, too. 🤷🏽‍♀️

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

I don’t know why your last post was hidden @itslatehumpty I didn’t report it.

I posted this thread to debate something which is one sided on the feminist board. I wanted to see and hear other opinions. I have no right or wrong answer (as I doubt anyone has)

I am simply giving my views, or views passed onto me, or views which are held in society

[Babyboomtastic]

@Giespeace

Sure.
Oh and maybe a chemically induced tummy bug, and exhaustion lasting for at least 3 months continually. I'll let them choose they carry on working through this, look after small children, or for the full of authentic experience, do both.

Maybe they can roll a dice as well to see which nasty pregnancy complication they end up with. I'll be generous and let 4-6 equal just the usual discomforts, morning sickness, heartburn, discomfort, piles etc.

[ItsLateHumpty]

I don’t know why your last post was hidden @itslatehumpty I didn’t report it

I don’t think anyone reported my post - it was hidden as it went up. I think MNHQ have implemented some new algorithms that auto hide content, but as I said nothing controversial or posted a link to a banned site (although I did employ a schoolyard snicker) I’m not sure what was picked up.

Unless MN get this sorted, convos will become difficult 🤷‍♀️

[LastRoloIsMine]

OP you said if medicine/science evolves to allow trans women to experience menstrual bleeding would you then accept them as women.

Science is not biology.
Menstruation is not just bleeding from somewhere.
You do know why it happens and what it takes for it do happen don't you?

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

I fully accept I am completely possibly in the wrong here, I’m happy to be educated though if that’s the case (I may debate though) 😂

[ArriettyJones]

@ItsLateHumpty

I don’t know why your last post was hidden @itslatehumpty I didn’t report it

I don’t think anyone reported my post - it was hidden as it went up. I think MNHQ have implemented some new algorithms that auto hide content, but as I said nothing controversial or posted a link to a banned site (although I did employ a schoolyard snicker) I’m not sure what was picked up.

Unless MN get this sorted, convos will become difficult 🤷‍♀️

Yes and there’s a list of unsayable things around this topic that was developed on the battlefield of the feminism boards. Lots of outsiders and TRAs visit there to provoke fights. MNHQ eventually came up with a slightly arbitrary set of rules around it to attempt to implement a ceasefire. So I expect all those verboten terms were first into the algorithm programming.

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

Sorry @ItsLateHumpty that’s shit you should be censored

[Bluemoooon]

Is this a thread to prove how anti-transgender MN is?

[RantyAnty]

I agree with JKR.

Trans can dress or call themselves whatever they want. I'm going to respect them as any other person.

With the discussion of menstruation, I find it funny that the focus went to trans women and nothing at all said about trans men. Trans men are the ones who can actually have a period.

Noone seems to be concerned about offending actual women or trying to change things about women to make a tiny percentage of the population feel better.

Like the word cis. Don't fucking call me cis. I'm just a woman.

Don't take up a woman's medical appointments with a gyn because you want to play female. Yes, I've read some accounts of some scheduling appointments with obgyn to feel more like a woman.

Women already don't have enough resources, funding, and research as it is.

[Giespeace]

@Babyboomtastic

Yes, let’s add a bit of that!

I also have a pregnancy tumour on my upper gum causing a lisp and three loose teeth at last count. Hopefully will still have all my teeth by the time of delivery then go back to normal.

There’s so much variety to the female experience - even to women it can be a shock at times and no woman experiences all of it. I just can’t understand how some surgery and a declaration of “I am” can equal lived experience. Which isn’t to say trans women aren’t equal humans, just that their lived experiences and struggles are different so why can’t we just be honest about that?

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

Why do you say that @bluemoooon? It’s just a thread discussing current affairs?

[GlendaSugarbeanIsJudgingYou]

My question at that point would be why research and development time was being wasted on creating fake periods for emotional validation purposes

Well, there has been researching and development time (thank goodness) put into reconstructive breast surgery after a mastectomy over the years which could be considered for emotional purposes.

The difference is the women who have undergone this surgery will not demand that everyone who is aware, even medical professionals, declare that their breasts are 100% natural and can produce milk.

They wouldn't call it (insert relevant)-phobia because of the facts.

I am 100% aware this is a totally different situation and hope I haven't caused any offense but why is there such a difference?

Can you imagine the response a menopausal woman who asked for a uterine transplant so that she could still experience menstrual bleeding because it makes her feel like a proper woman would get?