JK Rowling, is she being unreasonable? YABU = don't agree with JK, YANBU = do agree with JK **MNHQ edited wonky title**

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

Massive social media debate going on with JK stating “erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives”

Wanted to know outside the feminist board how people feel. Is she being unreasonable in being against transgender people identifying as they feel as in sex. Or is this the normal view and trans gender people should accept they are male/female dependant on their birth?

[Fearandsurprise]

@Sn0tnose

I think she’s bloody wonderful.

It has shocked me how many seemingly intelligent people saw JKR saying that people who menstruate are called women, but somehow have translated it as her saying you are not a woman unless you menstruate.

I agree with you.

I am often surprised at the poor grasp of logic many people have. You can even regularly witness it on Mumsnet, along with poor reading comprehension. (I’m not saying it is people’s fault -it could be due to any number of reasons e.g. too busy, too tired, distracted etc.). Often when people realise they have made a mistake in logic or comprehension, they are embarrassed, and defend their mistake in stronger terms.

[Sn0tnose]

I think she’s bloody wonderful.

It has shocked me how many seemingly intelligent people saw JKR saying that people who menstruate are called women, but somehow have translated it as her saying you are not a woman unless you menstruate.

[SecretSpAD]

Biological women are incapable of raping another woman because they don't have a penis. The sexual violence and threats against JKR are made by biological men.

[LesbianMummies]

Have you read what JK actually posted? She never said she was against transgender people identifying as the sex they feel they are. She simply stated sex is real.

[TehBewilderness]

It is interesting to note that in response to Jo Rowling's stated concerns for transmen, females who identify as men, the response has been entirely focused on males who identify as girls.

[MilleniumHallsWalledGarden]

I find their lack of outcry troubling. It makes me think they are happy not to speak out against the active bullying, threats and hate against a women.

Yeah, I find it problematic too. They're perfectly happy to have thrown her to the wolves. Fuckers.

[KeepWashingThoseHands]

YANBU

[Langsdestiny]

Yes it's very easy to spot those who hate women these days.

[Winesalot]

@Cailleach1

It has just dawned on me that by making a comment but ignoring the way JKR has been receiving vicious mysogynistic and threatening comments, Eddie Redmayne, Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watson have in essence condoned this hateful treatment of women. They witnessed it and just turned a blind eye. Very much part of the problem. Since they involved themselves and commented , their silence on this masculine bullying of women (which is as old as the hills) is glaring.

Women hating still good in this new world, even in the luvvie's bubbles. Good to have that still with us.

hear hear!

[Cailleach1]

That is just my opinion of course. I find their lack of outcry troubling. It makes me think they are happy not to speak out against the active bullying, threats and hate against a women. Those hate guys are just obsessed with their penises.

[Cailleach1]

It has just dawned on me that by making a comment but ignoring the way JKR has been receiving vicious mysogynistic and threatening comments, Eddie Redmayne, Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watson have in essence condoned this hateful treatment of women. They witnessed it and just turned a blind eye. Very much part of the problem. Since they involved themselves and commented , their silence on this masculine bullying of women (which is as old as the hills) is glaring.

Women hating still good in this new world, even in the luvvie's bubbles. Good to have that still with us.

[Railingsohno]

Interesting article
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/national/feminists-like-jk-rowling-struggle-with-the-transgender-movement-but-they-should-not-be-silenced-20200610-p55173.html

[Aesopfable]

@Winesalot

Sorry, Aesop. Cross post.

Worth repeating

[Giespeace]

@Ethelfelda
He doesn’t even have to put on so much as a bit of lip balm. “I am a woman” will suffice, apparently.

[Ethelfleda]

The more I read about this the more fucking angry I get.
We are starting to remove films and TV series for portraying ‘black face’ (and rightly so!!)
But a man puts some make up on and tells us he is a woman and tells us how we should feel about that, takes away our rights and we have to just shut up about it?? People get sacked for holding this belief? JKR gets ripped to shreds including from the likes of Radcliffe and Redmayne??

I feel like I am in the twilight zone here.

[RufustheLanglovingreindeer]

Good article in the times www.thetimes.co.uk/article/creased-and-loved-lark-rise-is-back-on-my-shelf-986kntbpk?shareToken=0af3803c7d591c9ba2c71999f7b73fa3

Not the lark rise bit

The JKR bit

[Winesalot]

Sorry, Aesop. Cross post.

[Winesalot]

@destructogirl

I was wondering how this issue (whether only women have periods is a true statement) affects employment rights.

For example, could an employer say they will hire 50% men and 50% women because I am an equal opportunity Employer, but I’m not employing people who menstruate.

Normally this would be indirect discrimination because only women menstruate, but if both men and women menstruate then it is not discriminatory at all, there are no employments rights for people who menstruate ?

The potential for harm here is very real. The Scottish government just passed guidance about just this insistence on certain boards where there is a gender balance. JKR mentioned it in her essay, it come to the public's eyes last week. Oh, and it is hate to ask them for any proof at all. And it clarifies that this male can still present as male, just pronouns, some documentation such as utility bills and not much else.

I would expect that this 'guidance' will replicate into many other parts of the law.

So, yes, Why would you hire a female if you can meet the gender requirements by hiring people who don't need leave for being pregnant and caring for children. Progressive or regressive?

So, this is not a 'straw man' argument as is dismissed by many.

[AhBallix]

I don't agree with the OP's summary of what JKR actually meant, but have voted YANBU, as in I agree with J K Rowling.

At best, her essay and comments have been misunderstood by the ardently woke brigade who are determined to be seen as right on, without stopping to ponder the consequences for others, ie women.

At worst, her essay and comments have been wilfully misinterpreted by those seeking to hammer women's rights into the ground as if they no longer matter or are somehow irrelevant now.

Honestly, you couldn't make it up. Every day my jaw drops just a little bit more at this whole bloody circus.

[Trevsadick]

India, on this morning, said she is with her on self id and single sex spaces and said there is no need to change language.

[purpleme12]

They discussing it on This Morning now

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

Someone should invite the virus to a struggle session like they tried to do with Rowling, so it can be kindly and lovingly steered in a non bigoted direction.

[Giespeace]

the difference in the immune systems of men & women and the consequently higher COVID death rates for men & boys in every country in the world

Which just goes to show that Covid-19 is a racist, sexist and transphobic virus.

[BigChocFrenzy]

YANBU

Wishing can't change chromosones, which is the fundamental difference between men & women

Men have one X chromosone; women have 2

Biology can't be just wished away:
e.g. the difference in the immune systems of men & women and the consequently higher COVID death rates for men & boys in every country in the world

[Kit19]

Where I was not fewer 🤦🏻‍♀️