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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the abortion rate will increase after April this year?

930 replies

RocketQueenP · 21/02/2017 17:07

When the new rules on tax credits / universal credit come in ie when no one can claim benefit be it top up or otherwise for any more than 2 children

Sadly I am helping a good friend cope who has just had an early abortion, she did not plan the pregnancy and one of the main reasons is she and her DH are low earners/ They already have 2 at school, and won't be able to afford to have this baby. She is devastated and has admitted they could have squeezed another DC in if it wasn't for the new rules. I think this will happen a lot. :(

In times gone by people would adopt out children that were unplanned that they couldn't afford and I really feel that this is what we are headed back to. Not adoption but, you get my drift

I also think the government fully know this and its one of the reasons they have brought it in. Simple population control Angry

OP posts:
RebootYourEngine · 21/02/2017 17:11

I agree with the new rules. I dont agree that abortion figures will rise. If people dont want children or cant afford children then there are many things they can do to stop that and abortion doesnt have to be one of them.

DrE678 · 21/02/2017 17:11

We are one of the few countries that provides a pretty exhaustive welfare state. Two kids is enough if you can't afford to have any more. It's not the state's job to pay for people to have as many kids as they want.

Reow · 21/02/2017 17:13

I agree with the new rules. Don't have children if you can't afford to pay for them.

AndNowItsSeven · 21/02/2017 17:14

Yanbu op, the stories have already effectively murdered many sick and disabled people.
They could not care less about unborn babies lives.

alltouchedout · 21/02/2017 17:15

It may do, I don't know. I don't think abortion is a terrible thing though and it doesn't actually matter to me how many abortions are carried out as long as every single woman having one has made her own free choice and the abortion is carried out safely. It does upset me that women who do not wish to have an abortion feel they will have to, though.

I totally disagree with the new limits of tax credits.

I believe that the childcare element of tax credit is not to be limited to two children only, which is something.

Northernlurker · 21/02/2017 17:16

The op isn't talking about people who plan large families despite hardship. She's talking about people who accidentally conceive and would have continued with the pregnancy because the finances could be supported. Those people won't have those dc now. So less cost in benefits but who knows what cost in neural health.

Loopholio · 21/02/2017 17:17

How would families with more than two children who fall on hard times through no fault of their own manage?
I assume this change won't just affect people who could choose to have fewer children, it'll affect families further down the line too. Should only the very rich have more children?

juneau · 21/02/2017 17:17

I disagree. I couldn't raise a DC on £13.20 a week (or whatever the child benefit is these days), so I doubt anyone else could either.

Itsalwayssunny · 21/02/2017 17:18

There are plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy. In times gone by there was not the available contraception there is now. People should not rely on benefits when making a decision on whether to have more children.

JaxingJump · 21/02/2017 17:18

Hopefully the new rules will have a preventative effect on pregnancies rather than just lead to more terminations. 2 children that are already not affordable is enough. There will always be accidents unfortunately.

The real issue is not that there will be more abortions but that people cannot afford to live and have families in this country. That was and is the problem.

sconebonjovi · 21/02/2017 17:18

Goodness me, some of you are wonderfully compassionate aren't you?

MaryPoppinsPenguins · 21/02/2017 17:19

Does child benefit really make that much difference?? Hmm

NeedsAsockamnesty · 21/02/2017 17:20

Child benefit is not effected by the two child limit, it's child tax credits

Sexykitten2005 · 21/02/2017 17:21

Sorry but I agree with the new rules. Contraception is free on the NHS so poverty is not an excuse for an unplanned pregnancy, you can even have more than one type if you want it, I.e. Use the pill and condoms. Why should we continue to pay for other peoples children?
If abortion rates go up it will not be the governments fault, it will be the fault of people who cannot take care of their own contraceptive needs.

creampinkrose · 21/02/2017 17:21

I don't think it's compassion but pragmatism that wins out.

I had an abortion when I was 21; one of the main reasons was because I wouldn't have been able to afford to raise the child at that time.

Somerville · 21/02/2017 17:22

There are always going to be contraceptive failures and I really feel for women who have them and get pregnant and feel they have no choice but to terminate.

I think termination should be an active choice, not the result of no other options.

SprogletsMum · 21/02/2017 17:23

I'm pregnant now and due mid April. We receive tax credits, this is my 4th child and was a contraception failure.
I knew I needed to get an abortion but couldn't bring myself to do it. We'll manage, not much choice really is there.

Somerville · 21/02/2017 17:24

And I'd much rather pay for other people children than see starving children out begging on the street, like they do in countries without a welfare state.

SenseiWoo · 21/02/2017 17:24

The real issue is not that there will be more abortions but that people cannot afford to live and have families in this country. That was and is the problem.

I agree.

creampinkrose · 21/02/2017 17:25

I do think actually there will be little difference to the abortion rate. A wanted child will elicit a "we'll manage" mentality whereas couples who are absolutely sure that a third child would be disastrous for their finances will be meticulous about contraception.

helpmebuystuff · 21/02/2017 17:27

I actually think abortion is not (always) the terrible traumatic thing it's made out to be. I'm on a PND support group on Facebook and women are constantly posting saying they are unexpectedly pregnant, they are terrified, they really don't want another baby. They are inundated with posters telling them that it will all be great. It's massively taboo to say hey you know what - if you don't want this baby then termination is a perfectly valid and justified option for you. You don't have to have a baby you don't want.

Anyway I had a termination myself at 19 and thank goodness too. I wasn't ready to be a mother.

AndNowItsSeven · 21/02/2017 17:27

*Tories not stories although they tell plenty of those

NeedsAsockamnesty · 21/02/2017 17:27

If a family has a change in circumstances and comes off benefits and is off them for 6 months but then needs them again the two child limit will effect children born before April this year.

That is unfair

tabulahrasa · 21/02/2017 17:29

"Why should we continue to pay for other peoples children?"

Because those children will be paying people's pensions in about 20 years?

Because decent societies provide for the vulnerable?

Because we (as a country) can actually afford to and the decision not to is ideological and not financial?

I don't know whether it'll affect abortion rates or birth rates - I do know it will affect anyone who suddenly finds themselves with a low income and more than 2 children as it's new claims, not new children.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 21/02/2017 17:30

Only 2 posts in and The can't feed em don't breed em brigade come wading in. Children don't ask to be born, you know.
Not only that, but. There may come a time when you can't afford to feed em.

Being an alright Jack doesn't last forever.

Love to your poor friend, op.