To think the abortion rate will increase after April this year?

[RocketQueenP]

When the new rules on tax credits / universal credit come in ie when no one can claim benefit be it top up or otherwise for any more than 2 children

Sadly I am helping a good friend cope who has just had an early abortion, she did not plan the pregnancy and one of the main reasons is she and her DH are low earners/ They already have 2 at school, and won't be able to afford to have this baby. She is devastated and has admitted they could have squeezed another DC in if it wasn't for the new rules. I think this will happen a lot. :(

In times gone by people would adopt out children that were unplanned that they couldn't afford and I really feel that this is what we are headed back to. Not adoption but, you get my drift

I also think the government fully know this and its one of the reasons they have brought it in. Simple population control

I agree with the new limits. The welfare state just cannot go on and on supporting more and more people with their lifestyle choices. It started out being a safety net - and that is what it should still be.

I also think that if women were educated more about their own cycles there would be fewer unplanned pregnancies. There are really only about five days a month you can get pregnant, at most. DH and I used natural family planning for five years with no slip ups. Then conceived first time when we tried for DS.

I'm always amazed, for instance, that so many women don't know that the MAP is likely to fail if you take it after you've already ovulated. The coil is a much better method of emergency contraception.

I agree with the new rules. Don't have children if you can't afford to pay for them.
This ^^

But many aren't managing and won't manage in the future.

That's why we have an increase in homelessness, use of food banks, child poverty rates on the rise and 30'000 more dead in hospitals.

That's discounting the suicides and amount of homeless people who died on the streets this year.

I knew the minute that the Torys got in that we'd head towards the 80's again, but I thought that this time round, critical thinking and reason would fuel the protests.

Only today there are reports that there's going to be a scale back of A&E, Maternity and Health Services.

Why isn't anyone asking what the fuck we are spending money on, then? Because the UK suddenly hasn't gone bankrupt.

Not sure how I feel about this having had a third child who was unplanned. We did get a small amount of tax credits when he was born ( haven't done for many years now though). However if the tax credits hadn't existed we would not have had an abortion we would have just made do and done everything in our power to increase our income/ work around each other etc.

but we cant afford other kids either, whilst not on benefits - if I got PG we would have an abortion. as for many reasons including $$ not viable.

cest la vie no?

I agree that you shouldn't have children you can't afford.

Contraception is free.

Am sick of paying for everyone else. I actually think this 2 child rule should apply to existing children too. Those of us who don't get tax credits don't get a pay rise every time we squeeze a kid out, why should everyone else?

Awwlookatmybabyspider children do not ask to be born you are correct. But when should personal responsibility step in? I know there will always be the odd contraceptive failure and (horribly) children conceived by rape, but these are the minority. As a society we HAVE to stop expecting to be propped up left right and bloody centre.

If you cant afford a child unless you can claim extra benefits for it, then you cant afford a child. Why should i pay for you to have a child? And why would abortion rates go up? There are several reliable ways of preventing conception, and one method that's 100% effective.

Children don't ask to be born, you know.
Have you heard of contraception?!

Need I didn't know that! The two child limit will apply to all new claimants even if the 3rd (or more) DC were born before April??

I'd be interested in a citation for that, Needs. I haven't seen much info on the government website.

I agree with somervilles post of 17.22

If they're looking to save money. How about them knocking tax breaks for their billionaire mates on the head.

I don't know how I feel about the changes to the welfare system. But I don't believe they will have a significant impact on the abortion rate. I just don't think that's the way people make decisions when faced with an unexpected pregnancy.

Why isn't anyone asking what the fuck we are spending money on, then? Because the UK suddenly hasn't gone bankrupt. we are spending it on an ever increasing welfare bill and it has to stop.

Birth control is free. So are vasectomies. Your friend had plenty of options other than getting pg and having a termination.
I know no method is 100% that's why you double up.
Your friend is responsible for her own decisions it's not a nanny state.

there may well be an increase in terminations from people too feckless to use effective contraception. (Not saying this is the ops friend, we don't know the facts)

Yabu I think. There are many needs for public funds and two children is enough, if you want more you need to plan and pay for it. I'd like a holiday, doesn't mean I get to have one unless I can pay though.

Contraception is free and if you haven't worked out how getting pregnant works after two children then that's a bit weird...

Not sure i follow. what about all the women and couples who aren't on tax credits or benefits? Are all these women already having lots of abortions because they can't financially or practically cope with more children? What do they do with all the pregnancies they must be going through?

""The welfare state just cannot go on and on supporting more and more people with their lifestyle choices. It started out being a safety net - and that is what it should still be.""

But we moved away from that with the acceptance of low wages, unstable housing and in some regions (North), the destruction/removal of the industries.

So how is the Government counter acting that by making sure that people can earn enough and have a family, because I haven't heard of any solutions.

Or are whole sections of society expected to stay child free and then in the future, we fill the area with asylum seekers, as has happened in Scotland.

Loads of people can afford children at the point of having them, it's further down the line if a parent becomes ill, or one of the children is disabled, or other family shit that happens to people every day. It's what happens to those families too.
Do we beat them with a shitty stick too and helpfully point out that they shouldn't have had them?

It's the women not currently claiming who are stuck in abusive relationships that I worry about.

Abusive men will make sure their partners have more than 2 children and then they will be stuck in an abusive relationship or they will be in poverty.

I don't know what the solution is, something had to give somewhere and I can see supporting large families indefinitely isn't sustainable, but there are too many scenarios that haven't been covered.

I think this happens anyway- people who don't get benefits have abortions because they can't afford another child. I know several people who have done this.
So if people who rely on benefits now join them, I don't thing that's a bad thing. If you can't afford an accidently pregnancy, why should the state support it?

I must admit I was confused. Originally my understanding was it was only applicable to new claimants - after 6th April.

www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Benefit-Changes/Benefit-Changes-Timetable-2017-2018

Birds - No-one is talking about poorer people being child free. The government is still prepared to fund two!!