To think the abortion rate will increase after April this year?

[RocketQueenP]

When the new rules on tax credits / universal credit come in ie when no one can claim benefit be it top up or otherwise for any more than 2 children

Sadly I am helping a good friend cope who has just had an early abortion, she did not plan the pregnancy and one of the main reasons is she and her DH are low earners/ They already have 2 at school, and won't be able to afford to have this baby. She is devastated and has admitted they could have squeezed another DC in if it wasn't for the new rules. I think this will happen a lot. :(

In times gone by people would adopt out children that were unplanned that they couldn't afford and I really feel that this is what we are headed back to. Not adoption but, you get my drift

I also think the government fully know this and its one of the reasons they have brought it in. Simple population control

People saying that those who can't afford to have another child will be meticulous about contraception...
Those women who can least afford to bring up another child are on average those least likely to be in a position to be meticulous about contraception (through being in a DV relationship where there is coerced sex without a condom, or lack of education, or a myriad of other reasons).

What I do support is more money spent on educating and supporting those women. Proper powers to chase feckless parents who don't pay towards supporting their own children. Increased subsidy for childcare to get people back to work or training.
Not leaving families with so little money that they can't feed and clothe their children.

I think the abortion rate will rise, but not because of people budgeting out their children but because As the resources of the US (planned parent hood) loose funding and go under, women may look abroad for options. Just as many Irish women make the trip to the UK due to their more stringent laws.

Thats 100% correct Loo. Absolutely anything can happen.

No I don't think abortion rates will rise because of this.

I also don't think it matters even if they did rise because of this. If you are concerned about not being able to afford multiple children, then perhaps you should consider contraception as an alternative to abortion?

I agree it is sad if someone feels they have to have an abortion for financial reasons. But nobody forced them to get pregnant or have unprotected sex (except perhaps in cases of rape obviously). Abortion shouldn't be seen as an alternative to proper planning.

I was taught that no contraceptive works 100% so you should use at least two if you want to be safe. I haven't met people with unplanned pregnancys who did this. One of them didn't read the booklet of the new medicine they gave her for something. I do beloeve it is your own responsibility to not get pregnant if you don't want to.

There are always going to be contraceptive failures...
I think termination should be an active choice, not the result of no other options.
^^ This. Many many times over. I have a family member whose mom used a condom it broke and the pill, he still exists because she couldn't face an abortion and is very loved. It would break my heart to think of anyone having to have an abortion because they felt they had no choice due to finances (up to them if they want one though). Better my taxes (yes I work) go to support that child if it is wanted!
Also when you consider how the mental health services in this country are being slashed if people then feel they are forced into an abortion where do they go for emotional help afterwards? Our already overstretched mh teams couldn't help them. I fear it'll just cause suicide rates to rise more than they already have recently

I would like to think that there will be an increase in people who can't afford any more children being hyper vigilant about contraception. You would be pretty unlucky for a pill + condom approach to result in contraception failure.

Should only the very rich have more children?
There was a thread recently about some NHS Trusts withdrawing IVF treatment and very many posters supported this, 'children aren't a right' etc etc. Having as many children as you want instead of as many as you can afford isn't a right either.

Why doesnt the legislation to be brought in include an amnesty for all babies born in a transitional period?

It would mean if you are already pregnant in April and your due date is less than 9months after April you will still be eligible for tax credit.

It seems very extreme to have the cut off so harsh for those already pregnant, and it may force people to have an abortion who don't want one. Surely that's cruelty and against international laws and human rights?

Maybe we need a petition?

Why would it be an issue if abortion figures rise?

Tax credits were originally not "welfare" or "benefits" the threshold was very high and they were meant to be some tax back if you had children. Also to support children of families that didn't pay income tax.
There was no judgement and there were tv adverts actively encouraging people to claim them.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=8dllkfKg7B4

I'm just trying to find where I got the info from as I cannot remember which handbook had the clearest explanation

*"Why should we continue to pay for other peoples children?"

Because those children will be paying people's pensions in about 20 years?*
There won't be pensions in 20 years time. We have aa aging population and the country can't afford it. People without a private pension will get the most basic level of care and the rest of us won't get a penny, hence the government workplace pension scheme.

Because decent societies provide for the vulnerable?
There is a limited amount of money. We can either raise taxes plunging more low income families into poverty or take from other vulnerable people. I would rather my tax money went to people who needed it most, like the disabled, veterans and truly down on their luck. Not on someone's third child. And I would rather get the benefits system under control so the tax free threshold can be raised giving people more in their pay packet.

Because we (as a country) can actually afford to and the decision not to is ideological and not financial?
We really can't. All areas of government are haemorrhaging money, the NHS, the emergency services, local councils, the armed forces. All are having to make uncomfortable cuts. There is no money

I'm sorry. I really do wish we lived in a country that could afford to help everyone. I hate the cuts that we are seeing. I hate that house prices are rising so fast FTB can't get on the market in the towns they grew up in. I hate that businesses throw so much food away when people are starving. But tough choices have to be made to mend the country. This is not due to Tory policy it is due to labours reckless spending.

Yoda the government did give well over a years notice that this would happen, it isn't like they have decided 3 months ago and brought it in now.

I think they gave fair notice.

There are people who are choosing to have more than 2 children when they cannot afford it without benefits. Hopefully that will reduce.

I'm not a fan of the benefits cuts overall as I think there are far better places to make efficiencies.

Wow. The 'don't breed them if you can't feed them brigade' obviously can't think past their own situation.

I have 3dc's and chose to have them because we were a 50k household. Then my H decided that, actually, beating the shit out of me & leaving me for dead was the way to treat the mother of his children and his wife.

So in the two years since the police and ambulance service removed me from our )4 bed, detached, in the country forever home bollocks) and he changed the locks, I've struggled slightly.

Losing my house, getting made redundant, retraining and getting my MSc, looking after my 3dc's, getting divorced and working 2 minimum wage jobs whilst I studied meant I had to claim tax credits (for my THREE children) until I got myself back on track and into FT work. If I hadn't had this time to get my head, my heart, my body and my mental health back my DC's would probably be without their Mum. And a huge drain on local authority budgets because they would be in care.

Shit happens. People don't have a crystal ball and remonstrating against people who have no control of the future is idiocy.

That quote sums it up 'It us the way society treats its vulnerable that points to its civilisation'. Think on in the b&w world

I don't think it will create more abortions, I think people will just rely on other ways of surviving/coping.

I do wonder if there has been a baby boom since they announced the cut off point though, would be some people be desperately trying to get pregnant sooner than they would have just so they give birth before the cut off point?

Can I ask aswell, what about people in situations such as the following?

A) someone who can afford a third (or more) child plans a pregnancy, gets pregnant and has said child. Child then turns out to have a disability and one parent has to give up work to care for the child. Benefits are barely high enough to support these families as it is, the cut could be seriously detrimental to their welfare.

B) someone who plans a second child, gets pregnant, and it turns out to be twins. Should they have to have an abortion because they can't afford the third child/second twin? How will the family cope with this?

Interesting to see whether you get any comments regarding your post gertrude

Some posters cant see past the people already getting tax credits and having more than two children scenario

GeorgiePeachie American women who cannot get an abortion at home will be more likely to go to another State (that will happen bigtime if Roe -v- Wade is reversed and it is left to the individual States again) or to Canada. Britain is a bit far.

The can't feed em don't breed em brigade Indeed. I was a member when I was a foolish young man. I'm not young now, I'm still a man, but I hope not quite so bloody foolish.

Gertrude I'm sure I heard that if a woman is a victim of abuse, they can claim for all their DC? I heard them discussing it on Womans hour a few weeks ago.

Lovely my understanding is that twins count as one

sexykitten

We are the worlds 6 richest economy. We give millions in tax breaks every year. The distribution of wealth in this country is unequal. There is enough money floating around but the top 10% guard their interests aggressively. If you did a bit more research you would see our economy is buoyant but the money is being directed to business/economic interests and not into social organisations such as NHS/social care.

The thought of getting pregnant and not being able to afford another child is the reason I only had one child. It's also one of the main reasons I've stayed completely single for many years, because contraception is never completely safe. I decided having a relationship wasn't worth the risk.

gertrude same happened to me. I am glad you said it. Sadly there will now be those who question why you had children with a violent man, as you were supposed to predict your future and take responsibility for his actions as well as your own.

It is a worrying move and I believe we will see more women beaten and murdered as a result.

To all the people screaming "use contraception!" You do realise contraceptives are not 100% effective don't you ? Ffs
Op I'm sorry about your friend (sending hugs) x