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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the abortion rate will increase after April this year?

930 replies

RocketQueenP · 21/02/2017 17:07

When the new rules on tax credits / universal credit come in ie when no one can claim benefit be it top up or otherwise for any more than 2 children

Sadly I am helping a good friend cope who has just had an early abortion, she did not plan the pregnancy and one of the main reasons is she and her DH are low earners/ They already have 2 at school, and won't be able to afford to have this baby. She is devastated and has admitted they could have squeezed another DC in if it wasn't for the new rules. I think this will happen a lot. :(

In times gone by people would adopt out children that were unplanned that they couldn't afford and I really feel that this is what we are headed back to. Not adoption but, you get my drift

I also think the government fully know this and its one of the reasons they have brought it in. Simple population control Angry

OP posts:
SemiNormal · 21/02/2017 17:56

A) someone who can afford a third (or more) child plans a pregnancy, gets pregnant and has said child. Child then turns out to have a disability and one parent has to give up work to care for the child. Benefits are barely high enough to support these families as it is, the cut could be seriously detrimental to their welfare. - There are other provisions in place for things like that such as carers allowence etc

B) someone who plans a second child, gets pregnant, and it turns out to be twins. Should they have to have an abortion because they can't afford the third child/second twin? How will the family cope with this? - I think payments are still made where there are multiples (could be wrong....)

AndNowItsSeven · 21/02/2017 17:56

Superhero A:
they will still receive the disability element of child tax credits approx £60-£80 a week.

B: they will revive tax credits for the third child- its second birth not second child.

GallivantingWildebeest · 21/02/2017 17:57

OP - children aren't a divine right - nor its it a divine right to have as many dc as you can. You should pay for your own children. Why sholjd the state support your life choices? Contraception is free on the NHS.

Floey · 21/02/2017 17:57

Totally agree the state should not be forking out for umpteen children. Don't forget, this universal credit is not the only cost to the state. Add on social housing, free school meals and uniform, additional users of NHS... it goes on and on and we can't afford it. Simple

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 21/02/2017 17:59

Should only the very rich have more children?

but Ops friend had 2 kids already Confused

Gertrude of course you 1000% deserve help. that's what we should have benefits for.

Look I am sorry byt many people cant and dont have 3 children, I am sorry for OP friends as having an abortion is shit. But is she deserving of any more pity that any other mother that stops at 2?

a working mum that cant have a 3rd as it will fuck up her career and she is the breadwinner, same end result sadly

expatinscotland · 21/02/2017 18:00

I think YABU.

MothersRuinart · 21/02/2017 18:01

Some people seem to think that you shall only have children if you can afford them ie don't come from a low income background, don't work in a low paid job no matter how important, never ever get ill or look after ill family members, don't be disabled etc. All these will have a negative effect on your earnings. But if you're born into lots of money then shag, shag for babies!!

Karmaisabitch · 21/02/2017 18:01

Is everyone wearing blinkers??!

It's not more than 2 children born, its more than 2 children full stop.

As a PP stated, if a family have a change in circumstances & come off benefits for 6 months....if they have to claim again but have more than 2 kids regardless of whether born pre April or post.....will only be able to claim for 2 children.

Can't then turn round & say "oh well you shouldn't have had the 3rd child 8 years before the government changed the rules". It's all absolute crap.

isadoradancing123 · 21/02/2017 18:01

I agree with the new rules. I would like more children but cannot afford them

Lostwithinthehills · 21/02/2017 18:01

Lady, the pill is 99.9% effective when used correctly and condoms are 98% effective when used correctly. Even better use them together. There are also alternatives, including sterilisation.

EveOnline2016 · 21/02/2017 18:02

I rely on tax credits.

When we TTC for dc 1 I was 19 in full time employment and my own home with a dp who was also working full time.

We coped fine financially and even though DS was a challenge we TTC number 2.

Little did I know that DC1 challenging behaviour, refusal to eat and develop within normal range as well as many other thing was DC1 being ASD.

My earning power is very limited as DC1 can just about cope with me working part time.

With this in mind DH had a vacetomy. No way financially or mentally could we cope with another child, as it's a high chance we would have another child with ASD.

RainbowsAndUnicorn · 21/02/2017 18:02

I don't think the abortion rate will rise, if anything people will be more careful with contraceptive now that they know others won't pay. Contraception of many varieties is free and easily accessible.

The change is a good one, people need to face up to facts that the choices they make have consequences and if you want something in life you need to finance it.

People are far too quick to blame the state but the reality is it's down to the parents and the choices they make.

SerialReJoiner · 21/02/2017 18:03

I'd like to see that spelled out on a government website. Because all I'm seeing is 3rd or more children born after April 2017 being excluded. I even rang up about it and this is what I was told.

cricketballs · 21/02/2017 18:04

I do believe it is your own responsibility to not get pregnant if you don't want to

this

mothertruck3r · 21/02/2017 18:05

But you'd have to be pretty irresponsible to have a third child expecting the government/taxpayers to fund it. The government are not saying that people can't have more than 2 children, just that they will only get taxpayer/benefit help for 2. I think that is already pretty generous. Many countries don't provide anything and it is the parents responsibility to ensure they can provide for their children, not anyone else.

MuseumOfCurry · 21/02/2017 18:05

I've never considered abortion to be tragic (had one myself - walked out whistling). I don't agree with having children you can't afford, but more so I can't understand why anyone would ever want to subject themselves to the associated stress.

And having only two children is still, you know, having children.

helpmebuystuff · 21/02/2017 18:07

Can I ask what people think should happen with women who are forced into pregnancy continually by their husbands?

This happens more often than many people realise. It's a form of abuse.

MuseumOfCurry · 21/02/2017 18:07

I do believe it is your own responsibility to not get pregnant if you don't want to

I agree, but there's a curiously large contingency of people on MN who say it's nigh on impossible to do so.

My feeling is this: If you're against abortion, fine - but have the courage of your conviction and get very serious about birth control. Double, triple up.

MuseumOfCurry · 21/02/2017 18:08

Can I ask what people think should happen with women who are forced into pregnancy continually by their husbands?

Can I ask what you think we should do? There's help for people fleeing abusive homes. What more can be done?

scorpio1981 · 21/02/2017 18:08

What???? how many different ways are there of not getting pregnant including crossing your legs and saying 'no'? I can't believe this drivel. Get an implant, take a pill, use a condom/cap or whatever but if you can't afford another child then don't get pregnant. And yes, I do speak as one who gets pregnant just by walking past my husband on the wrong day of the month but knowing that (and my sisters all share the same trait) has made all of us all especially careful. And if the worst does happen have you not heard of the morning after pill?

FarAwayHills · 21/02/2017 18:09

YABU OP
Those of us not entitled to tax credits also have to make these decisions. If I decide to have another child my employer is not going to increase my salary to fund this. I would also be faced with tough choices so it is up to me to make sure that this does not happen.

Why should those already on tax credits expect the government to fund a child they if they cannot afford it. Having said this the government also has to do something to increase wages that are not keeping up with the cost of living.

MichaelSheensNextDW · 21/02/2017 18:09

OP YANBU
However, we either have a lot more children OR support a lot of immigration of young, healthy people. The government would clearly rather the latter, because they don't come with the 16 years investment of NHS care and free education.

Nanna50 · 21/02/2017 18:09

The changes did have a transitional period as they were brought in before July last year therefore anyone who fell pregnant after that knew they would be affected. It does hit low income families as the limit is also applied to Housing & Council Tax Benefit. Thankfully the disability premium has not been affected so this can still be claimed for a disabled child born after April 2017 and the Child Care element remains the same.

There are many families who do not qualify for Tax Credits who have to make the decision on whether to have more children so I'm not sure that I think its not fair for low income families to have to make the same decision.

I find it ironic that Iain Duncan Smith orchestrated these cuts to children's benefits, him being a Catholic.

GabsAlot · 21/02/2017 18:10

what? its the governments fault that people cant have more children because they want to live off the credits?

how about taking responsibility yourself its called contraception

roundaboutthetown · 21/02/2017 18:12

Bollocks that there is "no money." Just as much as it was Labour's choice to spend, it is the Tories' choice to lower tax and cut back on vital services on which we as a nation are already not big spenders - we spend an average proportion of GDP on healthcare compared to other developed countries, not more. Cutting tax, lowering benefits, etc, is 100% a choice, not a necessity. There are a great many ways to run a country and a great many different decisions that could have been made. The position we are currently in has been chosen for us by an extremely right wing government driven by ideology, not necessity.

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