Cleaner shamed us for house - not sure how to feel

[tokajlover]

We have had a cleaner for coming up to 4 years now and she’s brilliant, no complains from us whatsoever.

The reason we have a cleaner is because, like most people who do, we find it makes life much easier with a young child, and both my DH and I working a substantial distance from home, about an hour to an hour and a half’s commute a few times a week plus starting this year, school drop offs and pick ups etc. Our lives are chaotic but nothing out of the ordinary for young-ish professionals with a young child, except maybe the substantial commutes. Having a cleaner is definitely a God send!

Apparently, however, today she pulled my husband aside as he was WFH and told him that we need to do better, because she needs to do a “hard factory reset” every time she comes over.

Our house was definitely messy today after a weekend where we hosted and were away on the Saturday! But we don’t leave disgusting messes, food, we don’t have bugs etc (feel ashamed to even have to say this!), we aren’t hoarders, and our house is just a normally messier than we’d like it to be but not disgusting by any means 3 bed. The best way to put this would be, I guess, if announced guests had popped up today I would not have thought it the best time and would have said “sorry for the mess” but I wouldn’t have been excessively worried or scrambling about to get the place ready, as I wouldn’t have thought there was anything particularly bad about it just not “visitor-ready” and messy.

I feel so embarrassed now though and mum guilt has kicked in - I keep thinking that there’s plenty of full time working parents who don’t have a cleaner so what am I doing wrong.

She only does 2 hours a week but she did start out doing 3, with the idea initially being that she would do the general clean in 2 hours and do one deep-cleaning thing each time, she is the one who asked for fewer hours. We pay above the average rate which is not me congratulating ourselves by any means and we never minded as she does do an excellent job, just to clarify we are not under-paying her or anything like that!

I guess I just feel a bit ashamed and don’t know if she had a point or was this weird? Presumably people have cleaners to clean and sometimes the house is not in top shape when your cleaner arrives, but I thought that was normal? As I said we never leave messes for her to deal with later on purpose or any disgusting things, but part of me can’t help but feel extremely ashamed and bad!

Cleaners clean. They dont tidy. Sounds like she needed to tidy.

What do you expect her to do not talk to you about it ?

How is talking about it to you shaming you?

OMG, is she not allowed to have an off day or be a bit overwhelmed ? I can’t believe that so many comments are saying basically sack her and get another cleaner.
Be straight and talk to her ask is she ok ? is the job getting to much for her? Do you need to go to 3 hours if you’ve had a particular busy week.

'Put her in her place'?

She is not the OP's servant...

She is a self-employed cleaner who has pointed out to a client that she cannot do her job.

If the OP tries to 'put her in her place' and does not address the fact that she and the rest of the family need to learn to tidy after themselves then her cleaner will simply dump her as a client.

There seems to be too many people on this thread that fail to grasp that the cleaner is not a housekeeper and she is not responsible for clearing the daily mess created by the OP's weekend socialising or for picking up people's dirty clothes, plates with food leftover or whatever off the floors and surfaces before she can start doing her actual cleaning job.

Some serious entitlement being displayed and a complete lack of respect.

@HappyNannie my friend who is a self employed cleaner will not work for middle class families, she says they are always a nightmare. Exaggeration I know, but she had enough. She now only cleans for older retired people as she says she simply doesn't have the same issues.

I was about the thumbs up your response....but then I read your last line and wondered who the bitch was. That was an incredibly and unnecessarily demeaning.

Put her in her place 🤮

Where is that exactly? The servants quarters?

They are so entitled it’s unreal! And this thread proves it’s not just a generalisation. We recently went somewhere on holiday (we saved up) where the clientele was very middle class snd the entitlement was grotesque. The children’s behaviour was awful. I was so proud of mine who are very working class. I’m not surprised so many of them end up as politicians etc, they think the rules don’t apply to them. I’ve commented too many times in this thread. You would think the cleaner was plankton the way some of them have talked about her!

In my experience of having one cleaner for 9 years (no kids the first 2 years) we leave the house tidy for her so she can clean it without having to excessively move things to get to surfaces or the floor. If say we’re doing decorating so there’s equipment out and tidied to one side or there’s a ‘clutter pile’ of post, school reading books etc that’s accumulated by the door she’ll neaten it up but clean round it rather than put things away.

if a room is so messy that she couldn’t realistically tidy it (say we’ve not had time, or there’s piles of laundry/toys) we tell her to leave that room and then she starts with that one the next week.

TLDR: we’ve never expected our cleaner to work with an untidy/messy room, she just cleans the surfaces she can get to. If she can’t get to it she leaves it and goes round it which I think is fair enough

I have a similar setup as you, similar lifestyle. Our cleaner comes once a fortnight and does 5 hours each time. I have no doubt she has to factory reset our house lol! But that’s why there is ample time, and I do pay above her cited rate. She also changes our bedding. I think your cleaner is ridiculous.

This is turning into Cancel the Cheque.

It was the cleaner who told the OP that two hours was plenty for a three bed, the OP stated this at the outset and has reiterated it with more details for the hard of reading. It was the OP who suggested more time was needed and was happy to pay for more. If, as the DH states, she is no longer happy with the arrangement the answer is to take the money for the extra hours or be explicit about what she does and doesn’t do.

As for whether or not cleaners tidy - that is entirely between the cleaner and the client. Some do, some don’t. Most people tidy first as it reduces the paid hours required but its hugely variable.

I agree it sounds like this. It sounds like she needs 4 hours to clean

She's a cleaner. She should know her place and position in society.
//sarc\
Seriously what is wrong with young professionals today that they live in such chaos? I've noticed this with my nephew and niece. DH and I also worked long hours with small kids and we didn't have a cleaner.

id just tell her that you are paying her and wanted her for 3 hours a week to give the house a factory reset, now if 2 hours isn't enough to do the she can go back to 3 hours

The entire reason for having a cleaner is so you don't have to stress about the housework and if she is going to stress about getting it done in 2 hours its not worth it

I wonder if your house it messier than others that she cleans, its not a criticism but maybe she gets an easier ride at the other jobs and feels like its the forth bridge at yours with the starting all over agin - thus the factory reset comment

A good friend of mine is a cleaner and described a family who sounds similar who she hates going to, she said it feels like they don’t do a thing between visits and it takes all of her time to tidy up so she never gets round to the cleaning.

It takes minutes to put things away or throw the hoover around between cleans. Can you not do a quick 10min reset on a night so it’s at least tidy enough for her to actually clean?

This demonstrates a deeper problem in the society - no respect for those who are above you in the hierarchy. The cleaner ticking off the employer? Unfortunately, this not knowing your place is a huge problem these days - pupils talk back when teachers critique them, bosses ask employees to call them by their first name, and automatically assume it is OK to be on first name basis with employees - this is a sort of an anarchy. Yes, and idiotic children thinking that their parents are 'their best friends'. Crazy shit. Call me Jane, a parent said to my 5-year old dc and then when she was addressed as Mrs Smith at all times, commented on the excellent manners of my dc - she was clearly delighted not to be 'janed' by the little shit.

It is emblematic of our times and we brought it upon ourselves. And I don't know what to suggest, but if I had a cleaner (I don't) I would be a Mrs X to her and she would be a Mrs Y to me. None of that familiarity and nonsense that allows people to give unsolicited advice or 'friendly' comment.

She is providing a service you pay for. But ultimately as per your job, you need to provide a reasonable job spec. If you’re expecting her to tidy then she needs to be told. If you’re expecting her to clean, she needs to have a reasonable work environment to perform her job well. You are also an employer. How would you feel being given the elbow without any clarity or an opportunity to discuss expectations with your line manager? All those saying ‘find a new cleaner’ need to realise cleaners deserve respect as much as the next person.

Sure you’d want to give your manager feedback if things were impacting your ability to do your job well. Take it as a ‘factory reset’ for your working relationship - or move on and get a new cleaner if you both mutually agree it’s not working.

I'm a cleaner and would never speak to my clients like that. I do have some clients who are untidy, so I just say it will take me a bit longer as I'll need to tidy up before I start the actual cleaning, therefore I will have to charge more. Never an issue.

Yes agree with this,maybe cleaner shouldn’t have had a word if it’s making you feel guilty but she’s there to clean not tidy up.Im assuming she hoovers,mops floors,cleans bathroom and maybe dusting and cleaning surfaces? It depends what you want her to do really,some people want cleaners to do laundry and ironing.I had a cleaner a few years ago and always left a list of what I wanted done which was usually the jobs I hated like cleaning oven,fridge and bathroom.
I wouldn’t expect cleaner to pick up clothes,toys,shoes from all around the house in order to clean.
What does she usually do in 2 hours op?

@tokajlover
Find yourself a new cleaner!
For the hours she does,
The pay she's getting
And the fact you're obviously such a nice person
She's getting it easy
By the standards of whom she could've been employed by
And she knows it

This - my cleaning lady values things put away so she can spend her full time quota cleaning x

To me this sounds like anyone who couldn't get on with their job due to obstacles in their way. Eg in a teaching room someone you share with has a lot of clutter so you can't even put your own folder on the desk.

Again, as with any request to make a job more efficient, listen to her and try to accommodate?

People I know who have a cleaner always say they tidy up a bit beforehand and this is something I would be conscious of.

DH and I had full-time jobs with DC and commutes of over an hour without a cleaner so it's not a case of a professional career means you can't move obstructions. Sounds like we're an older, different generation than you so maybe our self expectations are also different; we would ensure cleaner could clean and not have to work around mess.

It sounds to me like your cleaner wants to do a good job and is frustrated that she has to spend too much time tidying and then has too little for cleaning. Up her hours or try to leave her a tidy house.

She quite obviously didn’t word it like that IMO. OP never came back to confirm that she did. Likely the Y chromosome in the equation didn’t relay it accurately. Quelle surprise! It’s common sense that someone who offered you a damn good service for 4 years didn’t just suddenly become a nob.

Is there mess because you don't pick up after yourselves?

Does she have a lot of tidying to do - cushions back on couches, counters cleared, bathroom stuff all over the vanities, toys everywhere, clothes strewn about?