Cleaner shamed us for house - not sure how to feel

[tokajlover]

We have had a cleaner for coming up to 4 years now and she’s brilliant, no complains from us whatsoever.

The reason we have a cleaner is because, like most people who do, we find it makes life much easier with a young child, and both my DH and I working a substantial distance from home, about an hour to an hour and a half’s commute a few times a week plus starting this year, school drop offs and pick ups etc. Our lives are chaotic but nothing out of the ordinary for young-ish professionals with a young child, except maybe the substantial commutes. Having a cleaner is definitely a God send!

Apparently, however, today she pulled my husband aside as he was WFH and told him that we need to do better, because she needs to do a “hard factory reset” every time she comes over.

Our house was definitely messy today after a weekend where we hosted and were away on the Saturday! But we don’t leave disgusting messes, food, we don’t have bugs etc (feel ashamed to even have to say this!), we aren’t hoarders, and our house is just a normally messier than we’d like it to be but not disgusting by any means 3 bed. The best way to put this would be, I guess, if announced guests had popped up today I would not have thought it the best time and would have said “sorry for the mess” but I wouldn’t have been excessively worried or scrambling about to get the place ready, as I wouldn’t have thought there was anything particularly bad about it just not “visitor-ready” and messy.

I feel so embarrassed now though and mum guilt has kicked in - I keep thinking that there’s plenty of full time working parents who don’t have a cleaner so what am I doing wrong.

She only does 2 hours a week but she did start out doing 3, with the idea initially being that she would do the general clean in 2 hours and do one deep-cleaning thing each time, she is the one who asked for fewer hours. We pay above the average rate which is not me congratulating ourselves by any means and we never minded as she does do an excellent job, just to clarify we are not under-paying her or anything like that!

I guess I just feel a bit ashamed and don’t know if she had a point or was this weird? Presumably people have cleaners to clean and sometimes the house is not in top shape when your cleaner arrives, but I thought that was normal? As I said we never leave messes for her to deal with later on purpose or any disgusting things, but part of me can’t help but feel extremely ashamed and bad!

Sorry, I would be trying to find a new cleaner.

Well if it’s messy she can’t clean she would have to tidy first, so you really need to tidy everything before she comes…

I would get a new cleaner. Our house needs a ‘factory reset’ every time ours comes (once a fortnight) but she gets paid to be there. If she didn’t want to do it, she wouldn’t come. If yours doesn’t then get one of the other tens of cleaners in your area who is going to be less of a bitch.

So it depends. Our cleaner cleans our house. We don’t expect her to tidy, make beds, put things away, have to pick things up, clear the floor etc.

If she is unable to access the floor or surfaces without having to do the above then you need to tidy before she comes.

I'd be looking for a new cleaner, too.

I'm not employing a cleaner who grades me as 'could do better'. I know I could. I employed a cleaner when I worked full time because I didn't have the time or energy to keep on top of things properly.

She needs to do what she can in the 2 hours she's paid for. And keep her judgements to herself.

Is she expecting you to clean before she comes?

I've never had a cleaner but I've read about them alot of MN. I'm not clear that mess you have leftover from the weekend and what is above our norm?
Did she have to move clothes, shoes, 'stuff' to actually clean the work tops, floors, shelves etc? Other threads have suggested that they are there to clean, not to move stuff around, tidy, put things away etc.

You've know her 4yrs, so I'd asked for clarity on what a 'hard factory reset' is and if you are leaving additional things around that really aren't for her to tidy/do?

To clarify, is she complaining it’s too untidy to clean? I try and leave things tidy for the cleaner so she can actually clean.

This!
It's so inefficient to pay for a cleaner and to leave the house untidy.
Nothing can be cleaned until it's first tidied up. Surely you can see that @tokajlover?

I’d of laughed in her face and said yes, I could do better - but that’s why we pay you, because we don’t want to!

That said, if she needs longer hours to get it done she might have a point, but could have phrased it much better!

Two hours a week is not enough time to clean up the level of mess you're describing. I tidy before my cleaner comes so she can clean.

I am messy but I make sure the house is tidy before my cleaners comes as it isn’t her job to tidy and it just wastes time. I make sure all sides are clear/ everything in the bathroom put away/ floors clear so can be hoovered and mopped etc . Even if sometimes I just dump everything in a room she isn’t doing at least everywhere else has been cleaned.

Ok. Firstly, I would ask your husband to tell you verbatim what she said. Is it possible that he put his own slant on this? Maybe he thinks you should do more (I do not agree with him) and this was his chance to insinuate that and blame the cleaner. I would imagine that what she actually means is that she needs more than 2 hours to clean it which is fair enough isn’t it? If it’s messy and she’s forced to tidy a bit before she cleans then of course she wants paying for the time. Secondly, we all have very different ideas in regards to tidiness and cleanliness so it’s almost possible to gauge how messy your house is tbh. For example, my MIL lives in a way that most people would be shocked by, like actually gross (to me) but she is a professional, well presented, clean, nice clothes etc and I know most people wouldn’t believe it, we actually joke about it.

I would ask her, just text or call and ask what she would like. Is she looking to be paid for an extra hour or does she want you to do a quick tidy before she comes? I bet your husband, at the very least, has been embarrassed and made it sound worse than she intended it to be. If not, then I would assume it’s messier than you realise because she’s likely self employed, underpaid in general and I doubt she would want to lose a client for something trivial.

Please update and let us know.

surely a cleaner is there to clean? if you did "better" she wouldn't be needed lol. I would say sorry we need someone who can actually do as requested and if it is too much for you we can find someone who else who is willing. We pay you to clean so we don't have time to "pre clean" before you come over if we did we wouldn't need a cleaner.

Did he ask her what she meant? I've been a cleaner before and it can be hard to clean if you have to spend ages putting stuff away or clearing floors in order to be able to hoover, or if the work surfaces are covered with dishes that should be in the dishwasher for example Yes, a cleaner CAN tidy as well as clean but it sounds as though you are only having her for those two hours to clean specifically. Maybe ask her which areas she is struggling with?

Are things left lying about? I always put things away before the cleaner came as she was there to clean not tidy. But if it’s just the odd thing then she’s being unreasonable, and I’d have thought two hours aren’t long enough anyway. Start looking for a new cleaner.
Also why the paragraph explaining why you have one? You don’t need to apologise for that! I was a SAHM and three kids and I had a cleaner with no feeling of guilt whatsoever.

Think about each room she cleans. Can she come in and actually clean them, or does she have to do lots of sorting and tidying first?

I'd clarify with her. Is she not happy to tidy within her 2 hours? Perhaps suggest you'd not mind adding the extra hour back on to include tidying if she'd be happy with it.

Otherwise I guess its accepting she will get less cleaning done in the 2 hours if there's lots of sorting or tidying to do first.

When I had a cleaner I always tidied up before she came.

I laughed at myself a bit for doing it but felt too embarrassed for anyone to see how we actually lived - perfectly normally I expect for a family of 4 plus dog.

So it may not be that your house is particularly bad, more that lots of others tidy up before the cleaner comes and just leave her with certain jobs to do.

A 'factory reset' is exactly what I pay our cleaner for! That's the point. We can't stay on top of the house ourselves so I outsource the cleaning. She doesn't have to do any tidying because I run around before her arrival shoving things into cupboards or my office (which I clean myself, not often enough as I noticed the dust today). But yes, she resets the house - if we had the capacity to do that without her then we wouldn't be paying for a cleaner!

The way some of you are talking about this cleaner is really not okay. Employing them? 😂 I hope you’re doing your tax returns properly if you have employees. You’re paying for a service ffs. She’s literally pulled someone to the side to say she has a problem. None of us know if she’s being reasonable or not but good on her for advocating for herself, speaking to the husband and not waiting to collar the woman and make it her problem. I know it takes me at least 2 hours to just clean my very modest 3 bed house that I tidy daily.

I agree with PPs who say it’s not clear what she means.

If everything is messy, and she can’t clean, then maybe she has a point (depending on how exactly she worded this to your husband).

Oh it’s definitely not like that! It’s hard as I guess everyone’s definition of tidy is different but you can definitely walk around the house without having to pick up messes etc, it’s just not like showroom ready! It did use to be before we had kids - so for me, less than that is messy I guess

If she's telling you she can't do her job properly in the time alloted then listen to her and sort it out. You can't have the house in a mess when the cleaner arrives, she can't do her job properly.

this is interesting it made me realise how right you are in saying this. fair play to her.

i put things back where they belong but when my cleaner comes I definitely expect her to tidy a bit too so I assumed that was the norm. what I mean by tidy a bit is go room to room and like if she's cleaning a desk or a surface move things and then move them back after cleaning. if there are shoes on the floor obvs move them to clean the floor then tidy them to the shoe cabinet?

is that not normal?

Fair enough. We were very happy to pay for more hours in one go or twice a week! The current hours were agreed upon as she previously said she doesn’t need more than 2 hours to clean our house and that there are no major issues to sort in that time before she can clean - so the opposite of what she has now said. I don’t think the general state of our house has changed since!