Cleaner shamed us for house - not sure how to feel

[tokajlover]

We have had a cleaner for coming up to 4 years now and she’s brilliant, no complains from us whatsoever.

The reason we have a cleaner is because, like most people who do, we find it makes life much easier with a young child, and both my DH and I working a substantial distance from home, about an hour to an hour and a half’s commute a few times a week plus starting this year, school drop offs and pick ups etc. Our lives are chaotic but nothing out of the ordinary for young-ish professionals with a young child, except maybe the substantial commutes. Having a cleaner is definitely a God send!

Apparently, however, today she pulled my husband aside as he was WFH and told him that we need to do better, because she needs to do a “hard factory reset” every time she comes over.

Our house was definitely messy today after a weekend where we hosted and were away on the Saturday! But we don’t leave disgusting messes, food, we don’t have bugs etc (feel ashamed to even have to say this!), we aren’t hoarders, and our house is just a normally messier than we’d like it to be but not disgusting by any means 3 bed. The best way to put this would be, I guess, if announced guests had popped up today I would not have thought it the best time and would have said “sorry for the mess” but I wouldn’t have been excessively worried or scrambling about to get the place ready, as I wouldn’t have thought there was anything particularly bad about it just not “visitor-ready” and messy.

I feel so embarrassed now though and mum guilt has kicked in - I keep thinking that there’s plenty of full time working parents who don’t have a cleaner so what am I doing wrong.

She only does 2 hours a week but she did start out doing 3, with the idea initially being that she would do the general clean in 2 hours and do one deep-cleaning thing each time, she is the one who asked for fewer hours. We pay above the average rate which is not me congratulating ourselves by any means and we never minded as she does do an excellent job, just to clarify we are not under-paying her or anything like that!

I guess I just feel a bit ashamed and don’t know if she had a point or was this weird? Presumably people have cleaners to clean and sometimes the house is not in top shape when your cleaner arrives, but I thought that was normal? As I said we never leave messes for her to deal with later on purpose or any disgusting things, but part of me can’t help but feel extremely ashamed and bad!

God yes, I need a tidier! Was great until the kids came along, then adding a full time self employed business out of the house. I think I need a tidier and then a cleaner

Feel sorry for you, that’s awful. If she doesn’t want to do any tidying, fair enough she should leave as that’s part of what YOU need. She can only work for the time she’s there so why is she being picky about what she wants to do in that time? She might have less time for other ‘deep’ cleaning but so what? The whole idea of having this paid cleaner is to HELP you not make you feel bad.

My question is "how will the cleaner know where to put things when tidying up ?" Plus I would be concerned if she "tidied things away" I wouldn't be able to find them.

Buying a dog and barking yourself ?!

I think it’s fair that you put things away so that she can clean . Two hours isn’t a lot to do everything . I guess she must be getting really fed up of it to have to speak to your husband.

Yes it's all about communication....and what time can be allocated/paid for

@tokajlover just to clarify. Did the cleaner intentionally shame you, or did you feel shame that she said this?

My husband always laughed at me when I tidied before the cleaner came. What’s the point of the cleaner he would say. My reply was the same as many…she is here to clean not tidy. 😀. It just made sense to me!

First of all, it's not your cleaner's place to make remarks over how tidy you are - or not. If she can't clean the house in 2 hours she has to tell you that, nothing more. Of course every house is different, but is it possible for her to clean without first tidying up? I think it's not feasable to clean a floor if toys and shoes are everywhere? I don't have a cleaner, but I feel incapable of cleaning if not everything is put in his place. That too takes some time, especially after my young grandchildren have roamed the house 😅 After arranging and putting away and folding etc.etc.a bigg(ish) part of two hours would be gone.

Having worked as a cleaner for many years i am appalled at the level of critical attitude towards the cleaner.
She obviously wants job satisfaction in doing a good job. It's probably been getting messier as the routine has got more chaotic for you. If she does a fantastic job then you need to work with her to keep her. I've followed many a poor cleaner and believe me cleaners are an essential service.
Stop complaining about what she's said. She could have just quit but she's giving you the opportunity to help facilitate a good clean.
Good cleaners are worth their weight in gold. If you want a housekeeper instead then leave the mess.

I worked as a mobile cleaner for several years, she shouldn't have said that, it was very unprofessional, I'd have been in trouble with my boss. We had clients of all kinds, if the home was a very busy one as you describe, then there wasn't as much time left over for any deep cleaning work, I didn't do any washing up, or dishwasher stacking as it's not great value for the clients money. My boss did say that we would make up beds but most clients realised that this was also a waste of their money. I would get a different cleaner if she isn't managing and do what suits you, it's your home. Perhaps keep 2 hours a week with the occasional deep clean.

It’s a bit rude of her, so I get how you feel! I used to have an excellent cleaner but I always did a mini tidy up before she came so she could concentrate on cleaning everywhere without our general mess / clutter getting in her way 🤣!! Which sounds bonkers I know! Do you have her weekly? If so I can’t imagine anywhere getting that bad in a week, she sounds a bit of a jobsworth so I would start looking around for someone else!!

Are Housekeepers more expensive ? One wonders why that segment of the market isn’t more developed. Too close to “servant”..?! 😆

So someone kills your friend....and you are not meant to be upset as you create your own feelings? 🤔
Not sure it entirely works like that....

Again, the cleaner/housekeeper distinction being about tidying seems like a weird Mn fallacy. We've only ever had cleaners, who describe/d themselves as cleaners -- yet they have always tidied before cleaning, done laundry, changed bed linen, ironed etc. We've always had a conversation about what we'd want them to do, and in what time period weekly, before hiring them, and we've always had long, satisfactory relationships that only ended when we moved away, retired, or, in one case, returned to their home country.

This. The mess you left seems OTT of what cleaners normally do.

Absolutely this! @HollyhocksandPeons you're not coming across very well here. Together with what another pp said, I'm really beginning to wonder how some people speak to their cleaners.

We have a cleaner x3 times a week, for 4hrs a time. My house is largely a shit hole because I’m messy, unorganised and chaotic … but she’s also been here 4years… so I think so long as you are paying enough hours for them
to do the work and not feel stressed - that’s the main thing. 2 hours seems no where near long enough. For reference my house is 5ned / 3 baths but only two adults 😆. Yes. I’m messy. Plus do live with three dogs that stink.

Just ask her, if she does a good job and you are happy with the job just ask her whats changed. No need to feel shamed or embarrassed. Teo hours if she had to tidy and vlean doesnt sound long enough.

2 hrs twice a week. If the house is a mess she can’t clean as she’s tidying up the mess.

For example OP a single friend of mine has a two bed smallish house her cleaner does 2-3 hrs twice a week. She needs a few little extras done as she has health problems like making the bed.

So how a cleaner can get your house to a good level when it’s bigger and kids and mess in 2 hrs is beyond me.

And a neighbour has a cleaner one morning per week 3-4 hours. She lives alone not cluttered and her house always looks stunning. Very houseproud. She has a 3 bed semi.

My cleaner won’t clean if the house is not tidied for her. She stated at the beginning that she is there to clean and not to tidy up. I make sure the house is tidy, beds made, dishes away before she arrives. If not she will just pile it in one spot and is annoyed that she has to do that. She understands a one off if I am rushing about or something comes up unexpectedly but would be very annoyed if it was regularly

Well, obviously you are going to have a chat with your cleaner, especially to clarify about tidying (is she happy to do it if you pay for a bit more time? or not). We have a cleaner and tidy before she comes. My daughter plans to get more of a housekeeper as she really needs someone who will tidy the kitchen, fold laundry etc . I also wonder if it's worth thinking ahead eg if you are having guests for the weekend and giving her a heads up beforehand that likely her clean will take longer and you are happy to cover the extra time.

She sounds really unreasonable. I worked as a cleaner temporarily when transitioning from a long time with CFS back in to the world of work - and would do whatever the customer asked cleaning wise within the time alloted. If I ran out of time, I ran out of time, but I couldn't care less if I was cleaning or tidying. You're getting paid regardless.

Unless you have both clearly agreed what her scope of work is up front, then it depends what your expecting her to do, but the clue is in the title. 'Cleaner'.
That's essentially mopping / hoovering floors, wiping / dusting surfaces and emptying bins. Normally that doesn't include tidying up, making beds, put things away, stacking dishwasher etc.
If she can't clean because she has to tidy-up and put things away before she can clean, well, then she's right.