Labour isn't Working - Thread 39

[Nuthatch26]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 🥀

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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@Nuthatch26 agree. .tread very carefully there indeed.

The law and process will work out what reform has done and only those with 100 grip on what's going on with funding should comment.

Coz the public can only take so much hypcrisy and then it turns the others into martyrs like trump !
I also don't like the degeneration of the flag risers. Clumsy phrasing. Should we ever have a war again it's those people who deeply believe in the UK are the ones who will be helping defend it.
Not the sudo liberal entitled smug ones who will be cowering away in their detached houses praying they don't get called up.

Those people have been grandly shat on for about 20 Years now since Blair and before but especially since Blair. They have been ignored and the very party supposed to be their champions has abandoned them . Brown and Gillian Duffy from Rochdale a life long coucil worker and labour supporter. He dismissed as a bigot and Emily thornberry scathing white van man comments.

Maybe farage and reform won't help them but I feel very uncomfortable with the words used to describe them.
Ironically the true left the corbyites etc did champion them with supporting Brexit because of workers wages and rights being undermined with cheap foreign labour.

They'll give some bullshit about how they are going to send people to the Democratic Republic of the Congo which is nothing like Rwanda at all.,

I'm reminded of Starmer taking the UK press pack to Albania so he could announce a returns hub, only to be snubbed and embarrassed by the Albanians. 😂

My DH who is probably typical of the public, wants to give Andy Burnham a chance because hope is really important.

At the same time, he was really angry at the BBC nightly news when the sting on Farrage was aired. He thought it was entrapment by politically motivated actors.

He wants to see policies debated. He isn’t that tribal or interested. These stunts do sometimes backfire.

I try to keep up with European politics as far as a casual interest allows. It does look as though the more extreme right is rising so far and so fast that it can’t be stopped.

That worries me. AfD in particular seems a dodgy outfit.

I fear a monster rising in Central Europe much more than a French turn to the right: France is an economic basket case and hopeless for the time being, and in any event National Rally would prove to be much more mainstream in practice than the rhetoric would suggest, like Meloni in Italy (who’s been called a fascist on MN endlessly 🙄).

The Dutch and most others are too insignificant for anyone to care about.

But Germany retains a lot of industrial muscle, which makes AfD’s cosiness with Russia particularly alarming.

One curiosity of all this is that the EU - in reality the Commission - has contributed to the rise of nationalism and so to its own likely demise. Despite being a remain voter I increasingly wonder if instinct and the mysterious wisdom of crowds got it right about Brexit, for big political reasons.

The rise of the right is linked to the asylum system straining.

Voters will put pressure on to resolve it. The EU has the same issue as here. Brexit isn’t a factor, it bugs me a lot that the BBC and others spread misinformation on that part.

True

I agree that Brexit has fuck all to do with asylum seekers coming to the UK.

I was thinking more of the EU’s general interference in national politics and its heavy handedness about the wishes of constituent electorates.

The Port of Dover has been brought to a standstill this morning by 'Stop the Boats' protestors. It was only a matter of time, and it wouldn't surprise me if more protests are in the pipeline.

Smooth-talking Burnham is probably going to be parachuted in to sort out the problem with one of his unctuous platitudes.🙄

But they're within the rules. I agree that it's untoward, but essentially Labour is tied to the unions, and that's been accepted since the word go.

Ultimately, I think we should all be concerned if money is coming from abroad into our political parties, especially with all of the political instability and threats worldwide.

I voted to remain too, buy mainly for selfish reasons.
If another vote was held, I would not vote to rejoin. The EU is a basket case imo.

Agree on the AfD, particularly their Russia stance.

Perhaps he’ll play a bit of guitar.

As with the violent unrest in 2024, I believe anyone who cares about public order should condemn this.

I loathe the left blockading, rioting and intimidating - including XR, Just Stop Oil, hate marches, Palestine Action and ‘anti-fascist’ mobs - and loathe the right doing the same.

Yes there will be more of this.
Sending Burnham won't help.

Please no 🙈

Was it a stunt, or was it investigative journalism? We need to celebrate investigative journalism as it's so bloody rare these days; it's all reporting with an ideological bias rather than proper journalism, which is dying a death. Nixon was brought down by some brilliant investigative journalism. Honest politicians shouldn't fear as if they're not doing wrong, they won't be found out.

Attention was already on Farage, so it's kind of understandable that journalists looked more closely at it.

I am the same.

Sometimes LibDem types tout the fact that polls show many people regret voting leave, or don’t think it worked out that well- it’s not the same as them saying that they would vote to rejoin.

I think we would be digging a deeper hole for ourselves.

Most of our problems are our own, and it is up to us to fix them. I do believe that some people voted leave, hoping to force the political class to face up to things. Didn’t happen. Andy seems willfully blind to our troubles.

The problem is pretty big imo, we’re seeing the strain of decades of globalism and conventions that voters are now saying no to.

Not just here but across the west. There’s a lot of people tied to keeping the status quo.

Just to add I voted Remain, I was a remainer like a stick of rock back then. But the media and the Brexit stuff is poor as misinformation.

I think that the original idea, which was about easier trading, was a brilliant idea, and if we'd stuck to that, great. The intertwining of a whole load of nations politically was a bloody stupid idea and has turned into a monster.

<snorts> 🤣

Respectfully disagree. I don't think Verbatim, and how this was funded should be celebrated. I doubt this action would have been sanctioned by any of the big media companies as it is entrapment imo. I heard a Sky journalist condemning it yesterday too. The video had also been heavily edited which raises alarm bells for me after the bbc coverage of Trump.

I haven't looked closely at the funding etc, to be honest. But I'm not going to say that investigative journalism is bad, as it's really not (when done properly).

If there are issues with this investigation, then it will all come out in due course.

My understanding is that it was set up by climate activist with foreign funding. So not exactly a national news paper.

It also feels different that Reform was solicited rather than the other way around. That will strike a lit of people as entrapment.

I think the Lib Dems will start leaning heavily on Labour for something on the EU. I wouldn't be surprised if we see something in their manifestos at the next GE.

I suspect there are many of us who voted to remain but did so with misgivings. I ended up thinking that we were on balance safer economically in and should stay and push for political change for longer and reassess in say ten years. But I was always doubtful about the direction of the EU and the power of EU functionaries.

Iceland has recently voted to stay out of full membership (they’re already more closely linked to the EU by agreement than we are) which is yet another wobble in confidence in the EU.