Labour isn't Working - Thread 39

[Nuthatch26]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 🥀

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5560242-labour-isnt-working-thread-38?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Judges sometimes get the law wrong, so it's grounds for appeal. I don't think it's necessarily grounds for revolution. Not unless the entire judiciary ends up being implicated.

@NoWordForFluffy no I meant if judges actually refused to uphold the law, as per the comment by @strawberrybubblegum I thought that’s what was being implied

Ignore my comment about the crash - I figured it out.

all this talk of Booths has made me think I’ll go to our local posh food shop tomorrow. Well, it’s in the next area over from me, but I’m in the area tomorrow anyway. I have been in there to get gifts, but I’ve never actually bought anything for myself! That’s my exciting weekend 😂

The outcome is the same either way. Get it wrong: grounds for appeal. Refuse to uphold it: grounds for appeal. The latter would surely be hard to prove, as I doubt they broadcast their intentions. It could lead to a complaint being upheld against them though.

I thought that judges followed precedent, which provides the guidelines for sentencing, supported by sentencing guidelines, but even on immediate consideration, can see I’ve been rather naive.
The only salvation is where once all judges would have risen through the ‘establishment’ now we have a variety, with more from the school of life. However, that could be skewed by the political leanings of an individual.
So what would we do? You hear some appeal decisions that seem a bit off.

Sentencing applies to criminal law. This type of thing is civil law. Civil law does use precedent, yes. But precedent can't overrule what the actual law is. If immigration law is changed, that is what the judges will have to apply in making their decisions. If there's no Article 8 anymore, they can't use Article 8 case law precedent for their decisions.

As an example, we've had new costs rules relatively recently which means that where we have a dispute, we can't turn to case law to help us see where to go, as there isn't any. We have to either come to the best agreement we can, or create case law by litigating (expensive!). Same if immigration law changes: no case law to use as precedent, but the law will still have to be applied. And if one of the parties believes the judge got the law wrong, they can apply for permission to appeal (if not granted at the hearing).

Thank you. I sincerely believe we all live and (should) learn.

@Rubydobydo that’s an interesting perspective because I see the judiciary as being completely captured …and once that happens, the Long March through the institutions is complete. I’m thinking in terms of leftist ideology having captured everything.

so I interpreted @strawberrybubblegum post as “what happens when judges literally refuse to uphold the law en masse?”

I did think that too. But I’m a live by the rules person whether I like it or not, so thought that maybe the legal professional would be as well. Whether or not I have a complete understanding of how the law SHOULD work, I still fear the loonies taking over.

I’m a pessimist
And I’m getting really sick of the things I worry about happening actually happening

Now I hear that Iran closed down a power plant here for four days. Obviously, we’ve been lucky that we didn’t really notice. Wtf will happen next time.

They can't be completely captured as we wouldn't be having success in relation to women's rights. And I think it's pessimistic at best to think that every single judge out there thinks and behaves in the same way. Highly unlikely really, I think. Same as not every [insert other profession] is a hive mind.

@NoWordForFluffy oh I don’t mean every single one of them.

I did indeed mean what happens when judges literally refuse to uphold the law en masse @SapphireCasino .

Or rather ignore or misrepresent it. I'm thinking of single sex spaces. It's true that the courts finally ruled in accordance with the law but it took many appeals! And even after that, so many institutions are blatantly ignoring the ruling that it's made no difference.

For asylum seekers, there's a whole section of the legal profession who are even more captured - especially since they get lots of money from the taxpayer for it, in addition to dinner party bragging rights.

Perhaps removing access to legal aid for asylum seekers will be enough to starve the machine. But that will take a while, since I'm quite sure barristers will continue to do it pro bono ie funded by all other cases.

Removal to a third state for processing - and then settlement in that state for successful claimants - might work, if it got them away before the human rights vampires got access to them. But anything less is unlikely to actually have a material short-term affect.

And it feels like the impact of illegal immigration is building up like a pressure cooker. If new laws aren't implemented and seen to have an effect quickly once a new government is finally voted in, I think people will lose patience. We'll start seeing more rioting and violence - probably following cases of illegal immigrant violent lawbreaking, but with a wider anti-immigrant focus - like there has been in Belfast.

And whilst the Labour government emptied the prisons in order to quell previous protests, another government probably wouldn't.

I think that would be a really bad path for the UK to go. If it does happen, I will see it as entirely the fault of the Left for pushing the public to ridiculous lengths in service of their ideology.

Matt Godwin in the mail / talking about coersive family voting.
He said a high amount happened in birmhham with family members usually men controlling how the women voted.
Aside from the attack on our hard hard won democracy ! What does this reflect about what's going on in those family's and xommuitys ? Do we think those family members are living under the full equal freedoms this country legally allows ??
What about them ?
Do we need to add this to the rape phamplet ?
You must allow the women to vote how they like ??

@strawberrybubblegum I think some communities that have experienced riots are past cooker stage.

I suspect it's not just in muslim communities that women are forced to vote a certain way. Postal voting really has got out of hand.

@justasking111 apparently Blair introduced that and yes it's open to fraud.

Blair and questionable practices go hand and hand. He did a lot of damage.

Clearest think that I have read on Jason Arday so far.

I quite agree that Arday was a grifter and Cambridge was cynical. The press is taking a lot of flak, but they are doing their jobs with integrity while no one else has.

https://quillette.com/2026/08/17/no-the-media-isnt-responsible-for-jason-ardays-suicide/

@strawberrybubblegum thank you for clarifying - yes that’s exactly what I thought you meant. The impression I’m under is that there are so many questionable decisions being made, it is clear that the judiciary itself has an agenda. Have you listened to Steven Barrett on this topic? It’s not really about him, but he’s a good resource in terms of listing all the crazy

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Keir Starmer wanted to delete/reduce the availability of court archives. As well as being able to hide things more easily, it provides the ability to say “ it’s always been done like this” with people, journalists I guess, unable to look back at what happened in the past.

so I do wonder what would happen if Reform were voted in.

Some sensible push back on Labour’s worse ideas:

Labour ‘lobbied EHRC in pursuit of the Muslim vote’

https://www.thetimes.com/article/27513ef2-f0f8-4a6c-9287-40f32b333eae?shareToken=72981b84f65df89912f232a9e9aa0ae

so much gets snuck through as guidance without proper law making and its scrutiny.

Blimey! She doesn't mince her words, good on her.

"If they really want to restrict our freedom of expression, they should come up with a proper legal definition and see if they can get that through parliament, instead of adopting underhand tactics, presumably in pursuit of a Muslim vote which they have, for far too long, taken for granted.”

Ah there you all are - have been sucking up the last bit of the summer. Hmmmm terrible graduate job market figures this morning…how utterly dispiriting to have graduated and not managed to find anything.

Average grad salary now…£25k. It’s a full blown crisis. You might as well go on a gap year around Europe for three years as go to university as it looks looks you’ll face the same lack of options currently…

What have Labour done to young people? It’s so bad

So minimum wage then? Exactly what they'd have to pay you without a degree. And they can't even say that it'll lead to something better in time, because often it can't / won't.

Blair's 50% uni target was always a stupid idea. They should've looked at capabilities and prioritised apprenticeships etc, not uni. What a fucking mess they've left our youth in.