Cornell University gang rape scandal

[alcovecupboards]

I found this horrifying. A woman was gang raped for multiple hours, drugged and terrorised by eight men. Men who invited more than 50 others to come and rape her too. 50 other men who could have stopped it but didn't. More men raped this one woman than trans athletes exist in American universities. But the latter has provoked a major outcry and has seen hundreds of millions of dollars spent to ban them. Why isn't the focus on these rapists? And the men who knew it was happening and did nothing? Also interesting to note that this is the first mention of Cornell University and its vile handling of this on Mumsnet. They had to write essays for crying out loud. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5wyzrm0n74ro

Not sure I've ever seen a thread where the OP of the thread has had so many of their posts deleted by MN on their own thread....

Rapists are shitty humans.
These particular rapists are shitty humans.
Men who invade women's spaces, however dressed, however identified, whether additionally rapists or not, also shitty. Differently shitty but still absolute disregard for women's dignity, safety, privacy, etc.
Not all men. Almost always men.

@alcovecupboards I don’t think we’ve spoken before. I am a feminist who puts women’s wants before what I necessarily think or feel. So I used to be ok with sharing spaces with biological men and for me personally I’m ok with it, but if other women aren’t, even if it’s only one woman in the whole world, then it’s not ok for the choice to be taken from her. Women have fought for that one woman’s safety and just because I’m not phased by sharing my space, I don’t get to take that away from her. (Obviously millions of women but my point is, even one woman is enough to keep her wish respected) I also read threads here and think they’re heavy when it comes to transgender people and at times I feel uneasy, because I see transwomen (not trans men) but transwomen in different categories. I have TW pals. One of them used to wear my dresses from the age of about 8 and when she was a he, he wore dresses from about aged 3, his sisters.
I use the pronouns people choose. I don’t hate drag, I don’t ever speak disrespectfully about TW as I don’t see them (all, sure some I do) as just perverts with fetishes. I see some good humans with a personal belief they’re not in the right body. I see some who were so terrified of their homophobic family members they found transitioning easier than coming out as gay. I see a very nuanced and quite devastating topic where people have had surgery and medication and aren’t actually any happier for it. Especially TW. But I see those people and want to offer support when I can. But it cannot be at the expense of women. And do you know what 95% of the posters here disagree with me. Because they’re so passionate about the protection of women’s spaces and sports. Some are just sick to the back teeth of TRA threatening to hurt women for their views. There is so much badness for women the world over than yes TW may be a very small percentage of that but that doesn’t mean that because you’re pro trans, you can tell women to care about other stuff either. I’d love a harmonious society where my TW friends didn’t feel like outcasts, I’d love that for them. But unfortunately it’s not the case and sadly men who have used cross dressing as a way to infiltrate women’s spaces and cause women harm and abuse have been the problem. I have it pointed out to me on here often I don’t know who (with regards to TW) is predatory and who isn’t, I feel like that about men truth be told, I’m sure the majority of the 57 Cornell cunts have women in their lives who trusted them. Men are just so inherently dangerous to women and whilst people like you and I @alcovecupboards likely know TW we love and trust, we can’t tell other women to trust TW because we have some we trust. I wouldn’t tell anyone to trust a man not the bear just because my partners a nice bloke. I hope you stick around and chat to some of the women here. They might not agree with you and likewise, but we should be having conversations even if we disagree. We all just want women to be safe.

Im really confused, how were trans people involved in this dreadful crime? I cant see what their involvement was.

Yep, that’s what I meant. Nothing to do with the woman at the centre of this appalling incident.

Wow.
A. Start a thread about a highly unpleasant news story many here would not have been aware of until today.
B. Instead of discussing the actual story, use it as a stick to beat people with about your unrelated pet peeve (the mask has well and truly slipped now) and start an argument that has nothing to do with said story.
C. Use the well deserved pushback you received for basically being gross to make out that you’re a victim and centre yourself.

Again, wow.
Fancy being that sort of person.

Is there literally nothing can be discussed without making a fictional trans person the BIGGEST VICTIM IN THE ROOM???

Are you actually despicable enough to make this real life woman's gang rape all about the hurt feelz of a hypothetical man who identifies as a woman?

I have fucking heard it all now

Bear in mind that if you're only just reading this thread now, some of the OP's really unpleasant comments have already been deleted

Women need to stand with her as, undoubtedly, the media will try to tear her apart for reporting.

This is rape culture. Men using rape as a bonding activity.

Guaranteed the same men now trying to discredit her online and defending the sick bastard who did this, are also hating on trans people and immigrants online. They only want to 'protect women and kids' when they can centre themselves as heroes, noble knights coming to rescue the feeble women.

Watch it happen. Those who proclaim trans people are evil, will excuse these men. It'll start with "obviously wrong, but..."

And there's a reason for that. They don't want to admit what all women know, which is that we can't trust our friends. Or the truth that all women have been sexually assaulted in some way. It's not just common, it's embedded in cis male culture. The survey of college men who asked: would you rape a woman if you knew you could get away with it? produced horrific results, and was proved by the Pelicot case.

Many of the men who fantasise about trans women intimidating and raping women in toilets, and them arriving to save us, will defend these rapists. It will start with picking away at her actions while avoiding a discussion of rape culture.

MeToo for closed down when the true scale of sexual offending became clear. Furious media articles about 'where will this end?' rather than 'how are we going to stop rape culture?'

And now, rape culture is worse - it's mainstream. Greta Thunberg was sexually assaulted while on the Gaza flotilla and the media ignored it. The BBC fanboyed over Andrew Tate long before he was arrested, giving him so much publicity. Trump has been judged a rapist and has dozens of other accusers. Johnny Depp is starring in major films, so are lots of other men accused and adjudged abusers. Marilyn Manson is on tour with Slipknot.

Watch it happen. The "okay it was bad but she..." both-siding. Then the out-and-out attacks on her. The rapists' parents being filmed crying on TV. The other women who speak about their college rapes being ' not all men' shouted down on social media.

Watch the transphobic women who want to keep earning from far-right media start trying to discredit her. Hadley Freeman's probably (hopefully) taking a week off from defending Woody Allen, maybe she's free? Or the UnHerd women who defend men making rape jokes, and complain about the treatment of Russell Brand?

Be ready for it, and stand up for her.

@ShutupLwren But it cannot be at the expense of women. And do you know what 95% of the posters here disagree with me. I’m confused by this claim.

I’d hazard a guess that 95% of the posters on FWR would agree with you that men’s wishes, however they identify and whatever they feel, cannot be at the expense of women. And many many here know TW, may have trans family members or colleagues or even friends. The point is they are still men and we don’t know how to tell the good guys from the bad, so all men must stay out.

Remind me again who normally gets accused on here of being "obsessed" by trans people and wedging them into discussions that have nothing to do with them?

That those two posters would use this woman's ordeal in this way, to make it about trans people, is disgusting.

This, there have been a lot of good posts…but this basically

I've just done a quick search and I counted over 45 threads started about rape cases just this year, until I stopped counting because it was too depressing. I'm guessing the number is probably in the hundreds.
And yes of course, the vast majority of them were posted either on this forum or on feminism chat.
And unless the post was specifically about a trans rapist (yes, they exist too!) weirdly no one felt the need to drag an unrelated issue into it.
But yes, it's just this one no one cares about.

À truly low, desperate thread. Have a word with yourself.

Absolutely. Fucking hell.

Sorry I worded it badly but disagree with me on lots of my views about transgender women.

Agree. I'd been giving Alcove the benefit - there's this schizoid mix of sensible, immature and childishly rude which made me wonder if there were two posters behind the name. But this? Too far.

If you think your post will convert others to your way of thinking, Alcove, think again. It was gambits like this that turned me TERF - more than any GC argument, they show the worst of your movement.

Other posters have explained the obvious issues. I'll just add that I wish you'd see the damage you're doing to your own cause.

If you're a [tiny doll with candyfloss hair], have at it. But if not, please step back and think. Posts like this are an insult to the victim of this attack, obscure the issue this board exists to address and are harmful to trans people, who deserve persuasive advocates. Not this frightening ruthlessness and blinkered irony.

The rape stories that hit the press are only the tip of the iceberg. There are stories even more horrific than this one that are not even mentioned in local news.

Hard agree. Very hard agree

There are times when I read or hear stuff that leaves me feeling a little upset, mildly irritated, irritated, cross, annoyed or angry. Congratulations @alcovecupboards. This thread has left me incandescent with rage.

What a grotesque exploitation of a young woman's trauma. I really hope that you take a moment to think about what your priorities were when you started this thread and where they sit against any moral compass that you claim to have.

Ah okay. Perhaps around the edges but there seems to be broad agreement about accommodating trans identifying men cannot be at the expense of women, which I think we’d all agree on.

I saw the same comparison on a FB post from a group calling themselves the other 98% which I gather are some sort of US political advocacy organisation.

Guess you missed the numerous threads about Gisele Pelicot and the threads about other more recent drug rapes on this very board.
Or the threads about the teenage girls raped by three teenage boys.
Also on this board. And many others.

Don't you DARE come on here and tell us we don't care about women.

You who spends every moment on here advocating for men who want to pretend they're women.

And even this... you don't care about this case or what happened at Cornel University. It's so transparent its laughable. You clearly posted about this as an excuse to tell women off.

You really think we can't see you?

Just going to add here that this will be the last time I respond to you on this site. You aren't worth my time and I expect many other posters on here feel the same.

OP, I can't believe you are using a gang rape as an excuse to make a point about trans attitudes. Not every single thing is about trans women. You'll be trying to shoehorn trans into the parking and anti dog threads next. At least that would be less offensive.