Most 'trans' people are non binary - EU survey

[WrongKindOfFeminist]

https://tgeu.org/tgeu-publishes-trans-human-rights-realities-and-resilience-in-europe/

'65.5% of trans respondents identify as non-binary or gender diverse, marking this as the fastest-growing segment of the trans community (up from 51% in 2019)'

'The EU LGBTIQ Survey III report presents data from 30,627 trans people (trans women, trans men and non-binary and gender diverse people), which represent 30.6% of the total sample (99,972). This is a significant rise from 20,933 trans respondents in the previous LGBTI II Survey in 2019. The increase in trans respondents is especially notable considering that overall, there were almost 40,000 fewer respondents compared to the previous survey. '

I was surprised by this. Interested to see how 'non binary' evolves.

Of course it is rooted in misogyny. She sees that there are disadvantages to being a woman and she is trying to opt out of them. She can't do this of course. She can try to make people call her they/ them but she can't stop them from seeing that she is a woman, and therefore treating her as a woman. In fact, arguably by making them call her they/them she is in fact drawing MORE attention to the fact that she is a woman. Because by getting them to refuse to acknowledge her sex, she is drawing attention to her sex. She is making it harder to 'just see her as a person' not easier, because everyone has to consciously remember not to refer to the fact she is female instead of just engaging with her character or intelligence or wit.

Potholes started this thread about the Boston Marathon complaint. In 2022

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4667370-some-light-relief-in-sport

The first NB categories started that year in some city marathons and female runners quickly worked out the issues with it as a category.

Let’s remember though, that people with NB identities still demand people personalise language to suit them.

Demanding someone use they/them is still making unreasonable language demands on people. It is also bringing attention directly to that person’s sex by making it is feature while believing they are making it a non-feature.

And as has already been pointed out, female people are having elective double mastectomies to nullify the sex characteristics of their body. Plus don’t forget the plastic surgeons in the USA who offer to insert a cavity made of intestinal tissue between a male person’s penis and anus.

True @Hellebore. I do have a soft spot for them because I think I understand the motivation, and also the thrill of being part of a protest group when you are young. Until the authoritarian language starts, and until the mastectomies happen.

Exactly, the end.

Remember though, there are male people with transgender identities that are not those calling themselves women who demand access into female single sex spaces. Including this one last year:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5355097-the-guardian-trans-australian-kicked-out-of-toilet?page=1

Nearly all women think that. It's a common female.experience. for me, it underpins the entire point of feminism.

To say you're not a woman because you think that suggests you think all other women don't want to be seen as 'people' and want everyone to focus on the fact we're female.

We don't.

We don't want people to be sexist towards us. This seems an incredibly difficult concept for people to truly accept.

Yep.

I understand the goal, and many of the reasons for using the NB descriptor.

However, the demands that the NB might feel and make are still significant. And the question then remains, logically it simply doesn’t work because for a non-binary category to exist, everyone else has to be designated as ‘binary’ which is false and it does reinforce sexism. It is incoherent as a category. It should not be recognised as any separate group under the main group of protected beliefs.

It's obviously hard, or even impossible, for you, as a man, to imagine what it feels like to be a woman. (We've been saying that for ages.) But could you imagine saying "I want people to think of me as a person rather than as a man"? Is there actually any difference (to you) between being thought of as a person and being thought of as a man?

Can you think of some reasons why being thought of as a person might be better than being thought of as a woman? This should tell you why this is all about misogyny.

In situations where being female is irrelevant (so - walking around, buying a pen, having a drink, applying for a job..... not - medical treatment, buying things tailored to female body, sports, prisons etc) it should genuinely be irrelevant and not a cause to treat us differently because you've assumed something about us based on stereotypes.

Again, this seems very hard to grasp for some!

The irony been that trans people are as binary as they get - investing in every stereotype there is.

It's offensive misogyny. Very offensive, very misogynist. If she is happy with people knowing that she is an offensive person who despises women, okay then.

Seems an odd kind of 'win'.

Plan B. Non-binary; a position that turns "woman" into 'only feminine'. No thank you. #savethetomboys

I don' think it's whiny performative or attention seeking.

I do think it's the kind of thing you say when you are young and lack life experience.

We all want to be seen as people.

Changing your pronouns will not prevent anyone from observing your sex, or negate the impact of sex.

I assume she doesn't actually mean to suggest that other women want to be seen as women and not people, and just hasn't thought through the logical conclusion of her argument.

Maybe it is all part of gradual human suicide.

Edited as I forgot to say,
That was to a pp who posted an article about non- binary ‘health care’, showing they too seemed to be neutering themselves with cross-sex hormones.

My NB friends are in their forties ... mothers.

This. Saying you’re trans is met with a groan now, saying your non binary will raise an eyebrow and get: “that’s interesting“. Soon the survey will show 100% non binary and then non binary will go out of fashion.

Trans as the identity for the associated legal protections and the sense belonging to persecuted minority , and NB for the reality of saying screw you to gender stereotypes- like what actual feminists have been fighting against for yonks

But they aren't saying screw you to gender stereotypes.

Asking for sympathy for their poor sore foot that they hurted when they kicked me.

They know that they can do with that.

The road to screw you to gender stereotypes?
Transgender doubles down on the stereotypes - it’s the only way you can have a mismatch between sex and gender identity (which I’m not saying I believe is a thing)
Non-binary is the halfway house between that and reality - especially for boys - and still lets you be special. It’s also presumably part of the latest iteration of prizing androgyny and that subcutlure, though perhaps regrettably the non-binary females don’t so much have the Ziggy Stardust look so much as some kind of toddler-Akela hybrid

Yeah that doesn't surprise me. Lots of the trans guys I know are nb masc. I'm coming to realise I'm nb but just that.

From what I know, nb masc people vary a lot - some present gnc, some take T, some have top surgery, etc.

People are different, and every day's a new learning experience. Ain't it fantastic.

no it aint

self absorbed bores have always existed but there was a time we were not all expected to wonder at them

The whole idea of “nb masc” “nb femme” is ridiculous

Should we celebrate elective plastic surgery and female people feeling the need to take testosterone?