Most 'trans' people are non binary - EU survey

[WrongKindOfFeminist]

https://tgeu.org/tgeu-publishes-trans-human-rights-realities-and-resilience-in-europe/

'65.5% of trans respondents identify as non-binary or gender diverse, marking this as the fastest-growing segment of the trans community (up from 51% in 2019)'

'The EU LGBTIQ Survey III report presents data from 30,627 trans people (trans women, trans men and non-binary and gender diverse people), which represent 30.6% of the total sample (99,972). This is a significant rise from 20,933 trans respondents in the previous LGBTI II Survey in 2019. The increase in trans respondents is especially notable considering that overall, there were almost 40,000 fewer respondents compared to the previous survey. '

I was surprised by this. Interested to see how 'non binary' evolves.

Absolutely this!

"You're all bigots for not understanding me, but even I can't explain what I mean"

We all have a sex (a matter of verifiable bodily fact, no "identifying" necessary).

We all have a character, a complicated mixture of nature and nurture, unique to ourself.
Some features of it may be affected to a degree by our physical sex and some by the sex-based socialisation we received from society. (Effects might include resistance to that socialisation.)
Some societies may view elements of our character as appropriate for one sex rather than another; this won't necessarily be a consistent view even within one society, let alone over time or across societies.
A lot of it won't be, or be seen as, sex-related at all.
Our self-image may not agree with how others see us, and others may not all see us in the same way. (This is true of any characteristics, not just ones viewed as "masculine" or "feminine".)

Where does a "gender" fit into this and why would we need one? What does it consist of? All bases are already covered. It would mean carving out a fairly arbitrary subset of one's character and giving that subset an artificial significance, as an "identity".

Edited for typo. D-n autocorrect!

Material belief should be material reality.

I can't explain it because it's intrinsic to me. If you don't feel it, you don't know how it feels. Accepting that other people are different really is a thing.

And we are expected to believe that professionals are diagnosising trans people?

You and me both 😂

'what a man is' is also an inexplicable feeling, and 'what a woman is' too, so if you've got an inexplicable feeling how does one know what gender/otherwise that makes you?

What if it turned out that weird feeling that no-one can put into words to communicate in any way - even a hint - that you had was in fact the woman-feeling?

This is why I think people are not being honest about it. Someone at some point has communicated 'what feeling NB feels like' or 'what feeling like a woman feels like' to someone else. Yet this is suddenly now something that is literally meaningless - they can't assign any meaning to it.

Nah. They know exactly what they mean. They just know they can't admit what they really think without looking totally sexist.

TransParentlyAnnoyed

I don't feel I have a gender, which is why I identify as nb

Wasn't someone that was nb, someone that didn't feel that they were either sex? or has the definition moved again.

I said non-binary people had being attacked

How are nb people being attacked? if you are just living your life how would anyont know that you are nb unless you tell them?

I don't feel I have a gender, which is why I identify as nb

I thought someone who didn't feel they had a gender was agender, and someone who is NB does have a gender, which is non-binary gender.

That's what I said. Also, the logic of NB without a gender sounds as if gender is now binary rather than a spectrum.

I think that poster may not know as much about gender nonsense as many of us do. She's been talking about NB as though it's something she's only just discovered, so it's all very new to her.

This poster has many fantasies not least that they have a trans identifying daughter.

This poster reminds me strongly of Amanda Jette Knox. Her partner & child both identified as trans so she went from nonbinary to identifying as male.

NB means anything the NB person wants it to. If you don’t agree you’re a monster.

There is a hint of it Empress, but I also suspect we have seen other cases as well. Where after a child has announced they are trans, a mother has followed with their own announcement.

And how many times have we seen siblings within the same family, or a father and a child.

Considering I have watched as one by one a group of 5 out of 7 friends declare they are transgender, I still find it very concerning that this dynamic is dismissed by those who desperately need to maintain the 'being trans is innate' line.

Me too. I think it’s a type of pipeline among parents of “trans kids”.

A lot of people use non binary as simply the umbrella term for “agender”, “genderqueer”, “gender fluid” “multi gender” etc etc.

There is very little consistency so a declaration that someone is “non binary” is meaningless and can’t be pinned down to anything specific. It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

Occam's Razor suggests that in the vast majority of those parent-child cases, it's simply that the parent has bought into transgenderism, and is applying it to themselves as well as their child.

But... I can't help but wonder if it could be real for a handful of them? Could there be a "hardware", heritable element that makes both parent and child feel trans? It's not unknown, for example, for parents of autistic kids to end up being officially diagnosed as autistic themselves, and several genes involved in autism have been found already. So if studies were done on trans people, would they unveil some similar phenomenon? It would be much rarer than the current "trans kid" wave would suggest, but who knows, maybe there's something to it?

I wouldn't bet much on it, though.

Genderism posits an internal feeling about one's sex that is labelled 'gender identity'.

This, to be quite honest, doesn't actually exist in any meaningful way. It's a vague idea/bunch of theories.

So if someone accepts the first tenet, that we are all born with some kind of innate and immovable 'gender identity' (a feeling about the sex we were born as, or a response to the societal stereotypes abut that sex) but fails to find that feeling when they look, then I suppose one possible conclusion they will reach is that they are 'non binary'.

Perhaps its a stepping stone to realising that 'gender identity' is ... I'm not going to say hogwash, because I can accept we have feelings about our sex. But it's been turned into something that is supposed to be far more than it is. It's like trying to claim that those INFJ type personality tests are attached to passports over nationality. 'Gender identity' is so endlessly debatable because the basic premise is so fucken vague and ill defined. Yet it's been turned into a quasi religious movement.

Actually the key point about 'gender identity' as an innate quality is that it's posited that it's fixed.

Clear bollocks. As if anyone hasn't changed their minds about how they feel about various sex stereotypes. On this, I regretfully agree with Sally Hines. Gender is 'fluid', because it's just a bunch of ideas.

Didn’t Andrea Long Chu admit that sissy porn made him trans. Not convinced he believed it was innate.

Exactly, it comes from:

“everyone has a gender identity, most people are “cis”, some are “trans” and I don’t identify with being a woman or a man fully in the sexist way I conceptualise those “genders” so I in my specialness am non binary, unlike all those mundane stereotype people”.

The terms are entirely self defined, I mean fine. 'If you know, you know', etc.

The correlating expectations, though, are that everyone else must on pain of severe censure, accept whatever declarations anyone makes about themselves.

So there's a disconnect.

Of course, anyone can call themselves a smargleflop and claim that this is an inner state nobody else can define. The disconnect is in saying that others must 'respect' or respond in certain ways to this declaration, I suppose.

Make up a word, fine. Insist it defines you, fine. Claim that nobody else can comment on it, that only you can define it, refuse to explain it, well, okay. Expect/demand that others interact with you based on your say-so, not fine. Expect that laws, regulations, rules and societal behaviour bends around this undefinable, inexplicable, made-up concept? No.

That would make it cross dressing/a lifestyle choice. I doubt he sees it like that either.

Well quite.